WW LXXIII: Arkham Asylum: Holding Cells(Game Thread)

[Isabellkya]

You have still left me confused Sally. The only remaining known roles are wolf and Ranger. You say she is not the Ranger, so that leaves wolf. Why have you not voted for her?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

You have still left me confused Sally. The only remaining known roles are wolf and Ranger. You say she is not the Ranger, so that leaves wolf. Why have you not voted for her?

This is actually a legit question. I thought Sally was hinting at Nerwen being wolf but why then change for Kit?

Like you said earlier Izzy: an ordo talking out aloud about her thoughts on who would be Batman would be soo bad...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yay! Go wolves!
(Hey, I AM insane, you know...)

Or he could be a wolf hinting to Two-Face.

Or this post (well, the last line anyway) could be a wolf hinting to what she hopes is a two-face hint. Never noticed that before, but as soon as I was looking back at posts I noticed it and went “Whoa....”. And we know Nerwen’s crafty so I’d not put such games past her.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

*shrugs* Oh you want a serious answer? Well, then: wolves and cobblers don't often jump straight in and start hinting away in the very first post of the game. So it probably wasn't a hint. But then again it might be. Or maybe not. Who knows?

Add this to my previous thoughts. As we all know, joking and facetiousness are good masks for actual hinting.

Also, for some reason the fact that she said ‘wolves and cobblers’ rather than ‘wolves’ strikes me; it’s as if she knows Boro isn’t a wolf, so she needs to put up both possibilities. Of course to be fair she could have just been being thorough, but still, my earlier observations stand.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now I am eating a dear little apple named Jonathan.

"Please! Please don't eat me!" Jonathan begged. Alas! He was so crisp and tasty, I swallowed him in half-a-dozen delicious bites.
Poor, poor Jonathan.

Luckily, though, all Jonathan's friends are named Jonathan too, so they'll never know he's missing.

You know, I’m sure this is just a coincidence, but....nah, it’s meta. Doesn’t matter. Still, this is just creepy. (Not wolf creepy, creepy creepy. And hilarious, of course.)

Originally Posted by Nog

Nerwen - I feel uncomfortable with her right now. The more people say she was probably just joking with her "Go wolves!" the more plausible it seems as a cobbler-tactics (or even wolf-tactics)... if you see what I mean. Your tendency to believe it a joke makes it a worthwhile deception.

My thoughts exactly. There’s a fine line between jokes and actual hinting, and since we’re in a madhouse I think it’s safe to say that Nerwen would be a little more cavalier even than usual with her hints, knowing that most people would brush them off as simply being funny.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I am getting very concerned about Jonathan now. He is just too sweet and crunchy (all of him). What does he have to hide?

Actually... *assumes serious expression* I'm not sure what we can expect from the current set-up. We've got three unusual factors: two wolves, no Seer, and a tiny village. Would the wolves be able to ignore each other?

That's if we're hunting wolves. We seem to be hunting cobblers toDay. Tally-ho!

Again with this Jonathan the apple business. Can I ask, Nerwen, does this mean something? (As in is it a reference to something? ‘Cause I don’t get it.) And then the ‘what does he have to hide?’ business at the end. What does Nerwen have to say, should be the question.

Yeah, we do. What with less than a dozen people to start with and two wolves in such closed quarters, it’s certainly a different dynamic than we’re used to. But can wolves really ignore each other in any situation? Leave little trace, sure, but in any game no matter what the size wolves will at some point interact. So really there’s not a whole lot to that statement. Sorry, love.

And again, this just feels off to me. “Oooo, let’s go cobbler hunting!” Sounds like something a wolf would say, and again it seems Nerwen’s hiding her role behind a joke.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now that those pesky villagers have been lulled into a false sense of security, right?

Ye-es.... only it'll be harder then usual for the wolves to control the lynch this early, and if one dies and leaves a clear trail to the other– game over. (Poor widdle fings)

So I could see them turning on each other, if it came to that... I mean, it depends on who they are, and what happens.

What we should do is ask everyone what they'd do if they were wolves, and the ones who do the exact opposite are the actual wolves.

Like so:

Nerwen: Jonathan, what would you do if you were a wolf?

Jonathan (squeaky voice): Oooo.... let me see... if I were a wolf, Nerwen, I'd be long, squishy, green and tasteless. Definitely.

Nerwen: Whereas you are in fact round, crisp, red and delicious? *voice drips with irony* Oh, how very convenient!

Again with the jokes. Time and a place, Nerwen, time and a place. (Of course this is still the first Day but all of her jokes seem too pointed. Am I just being paranoid?)

This (the bolded bit) also is a nice bit of give and take with Nerwen and Wilwa....possibly between packmates? Then more joking from Nerwen and teasing about the wolves being poor things, etc. Then back to the wolves turning on each other. It seems like hinting to me.

Okay, please forgive the madness, but I’ve got an interesting idea. What if Morsul’s a nutter and decided that the wolves are blind? Well, not blind, but mad, and unable to talk to each other. Like they have to PM through Morsul or something equally odd. This idea came out of nowhere, but it would rather make sense given the theme of the game, and I could see Morsul doing it since there’s not a lot else that’s different about the game. Dunno, just found it interesting.

And of course Nerwen’s obsessed with her little apple friend. Nutter.

So lemme ask you, Nerwen, what would you do if you were a wolf?

Originally Posted by Nog

I went back to see what Nerwen actually said in the beginning and am a bit less enthusiastic in voting her. What Pitch summed up in his resumé was in a way correct but Nerwen's actual comments are not actually that much driving the discussion towards Boro but more like just reacting to things said just before.

But to see Pitch being the main source of my heightened suspicion of Nerwen makes me actually raise my eyebrow. A coincidence?

So now that we know Pitch was innocent what does that do to your opinions, dear?

And yes, you’re right about Nerwen not driving the discussion. However, she was involved in it to an extent and that’s what a good wolf does; they participate without being too noticed.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Now that's really helpful, thank you. And that right after making a really good point about wolf strategy in this game. (Yes, Nog and wilwa, I've noted your objections, but I'm not quite convinced yet.)
But d'you know what, Nerwen, this mixture of perfect sense and madness is getting on my nerves...

I concur. Nerwen’s simply too smooth. And the fact that Pitch was killed last Night....I think a wolf Nerwen would make the risky kill in hopes that we innocents would think it was a set-up. I wouldn’t put it past her. (Of course it could have nothing to do with his suspicions of her, meh.)

Originally Posted by Durelin

Basically, Nogrod's first couple posts gave me a vibe of some vague sort. Loslote is annoyingly agree-able and like 'im going to be helpful!' But so is Sally.

Glirdan seemed like low-radar wolf somehow, and Kitanna seemed like 'I'm going to be the sense in this chaos and skate through silly Day 1 mwaha.'

But Pitchwife could be the same thing.

And Isabel is low-radar skater wolf.

So this may be irrelevant, but in this post she didn’t mention Nerwen. Coincidence? No idea. (In fact, she leaves out Boro, Nerwen, and Wilwa. I’ll go with this more when I analyze Durelin but I find it interesting that one of them was the cobbler and the other two are my two top-ish suspects.)

Originally Posted by Lottie

Nerwen is actually quite bothering me right now. She speaks sense, but then won't stop evil bantering - and we're all laughing right with her. I think she's pushing it, and she's one of my top suspects.

And again, I agree. Of course as mentioned before it was only Day One, but people are letting this joking slide when to me it looked more evil than most. I miss Little Lottie, btw. =(

Originally Posted by Lottie

No, I think it's suspicious that Nerwen's saying "Oh I'm soooo evil! Haha isn't it hilarious???" and Wilwa's playing along. I doubt if they're both wolves, but I'm pretty sure one is. I think it's Nerwen. Soo...

++Nerwen

And again, Lottie and I agree. (Oooo, and an interesting theory. I could be completely wrong about a Nerwen/Wilwa pairing, and Nerwen’s just trying to set Wilwa up. That’d be a trip.)

Originally Posted by Izzy

What purpose would it serve her, if she were nefarious to go around proclaiming it?
To see if it would be passed off as first Day banter and play?

If she is nefarious and is lynched because of her proclamations; then that would be quite the silly wolf. Or do you supposed she is the Cobbler?

Well yes, it would be silly, but you just proved that it works. Being silly will be seen as either being silly or as being silly to seem silly, which either way will likely be dismissed. You just proved my point. People will dismiss her because no wolf would possibly be that silly.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yeah, and I might have just been having fun. I mean, your "case" against me seems to be based entirely on one early joke-post. Opportunistic, no? And I also don't like the fact that you really went in on me after I mentioned that I was having problems with internet access.

Actually, I’ve been drawing the same conclusions from multiple joke posts. It’s not the jokes that’s a problem, it’s the tone and placement of them. And again, she seems to be trying to make Lottie look bad and thus keep people from listening to her. Seems pretty nasty to me. (Of course with the internet thing, fine, as I completely feel your pain.)

Originally Posted by Nerwen, in reaction to the false sense of security post

Nope. That's a semi-joking accusation. I didn't like the way Wilwa kept repeating that we had plenty of time and nothing to worry about, and I was seeing how she'd react.

Seems pretty flimsy defense to me. Sorry dear, I’m not buying it. Try putting it on eBay.

Originally Posted by Nerwen, after voting Lottie

Like I said, my gut feeling is that she's only the cobbler– but heck, she was a pretty lethal cobbler last time.

Let's hope for the best.

Yes, but last time she was a cursed cobbler. So....erm, nope, not seeing your logic. I think you knew she was innocent and were taking your best opportunity to get her out of the way before people started believing her. (Of course at this point Lottie was dead anyway so it hardly mattered but in appearance how Nerwen voted. Still, she got what she wanted, she did.)


Also, I point to Nog’s #152. He sums up quite a lot of things beautifully, but I’ll not quote it here as I’ve not a lot to add to it.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

So at this present time I find myself in the situation that I often find myself in. Not having enough suspects. Nog looks good, Pitch looks good, Kit looks good. Izzy and Sally are in my "under the reindeer" category. Dury and Nerwen confuse me, I don't necessarily see them as being suspicious, but I certainly don't trust them either, it's more like I'm having a crazy hard time getting a read on them. Glirdan, well you all know how I feel about him.

And again, Wilwa here looks at Nerwen and then just dismisses her. “Can’t make up my mind. Oh well, moving on....”

Originally Posted by Durelin

Anyway...my gut is full of bad feelings for people. Except Sally all of a sudden for some reason. I'm kinda not caring about Glirdan or Wilwa (except for her last post, esp. her first lines which make no sense...I need to go back and look) right now. Isabel is bothersome in her barely existing, and Nerwen...I have no idea. Kitanna is creepy.

Nogrod and Pitch are bothering me. They've both taken opportunities to say how much they thought Loslote was innocent and reasonable. How nice and dandy of you two, but does it matter? Yes yes, you'll say I'm just bitter that I didn't get it right and voted for her...hah! If I was bitter every time I lynched a helpless innocent... Also, Nogrod for his thing on Nerwen's 'yay wolves' comment. Yay innocents = wolf, yay wolves = wolf...

And again, Durelin was very careful not to say anything on Nerwen. Other people are ‘creepy’ or ‘bothersome’ but Nerwen....meh, she doesn’t seem to care. Interesting....

The bolded bit is interesting indeed, and to me quite wolfish. But the bit that interests me is how she dislikes Nog’s ‘case’ on Nerwen. Erm, he didn’t just dislike that one comment....

Originally Posted by Nerwen

First off, I'd like to say that I'm not sure why this suspicion of Kit (from Nogrod, Sally and Dury), as she hasn't struck me playing evilly, and in fact seems to me one of the most reasonable and useful players.

....

Originally Posted by Nerwen

As for Sally herself– in that same post, all her suspicions are variants of "Just seems evil. Yeah." Which is, at best, very lazy playing.

Heh. So because she’s reasonable she’s innocent? Riiiight. I’m going to hazard a guess that Nerwen is (subconsciously, but still) just wanting to keep Kit around because she wants to keep her around. (As in Kit isn’t trying to lynch Nerwen so Nerwen’s not gonna lynch Kit, if that makes sense.) And notice that she then moves on to second some things that Kit’s said. Yeah.

Oh, and this is (as I mentioned before) a point of potential attack. She’s trying to discredit me just like she did with Lottie, and I won’t be standing for it. Nope, nope, not a bit. Neener.

Originally Posted by Nerwen, re: me voting Kit

Which would all be fine– except that I was apparently Sally's top suspect earlier, for some reason, while she was on the fence about Kit– until Nogrod and Dury started going after her and looked like they might vote her.

Erm, if you’ll notice, in my post #172 I said I’d looked at her and my suspicions had increased. I voted for her because in my opinion supporting a possible wolf lynch is better than throwing away a vote on you when I didn’t think it was likely you’d be the lynch of the Day. So again, putting words in my mouth. (Although I can understand the mistake, as I wasn’t able to properly voice my opinions when I voted. Still, who’s being opportunistic now?)

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So, I'm running out of time here. Out of the people who already have votes, I'll go for

++Sally.

Not liking Glirdan either, but she's started looking even creepier lately.

Oh, so me making a case based on creeps is guilty, but you doing it is all right? I see. Thanks so much for clearing that up. I was very confused. Then again, you’re the one voting an innocent.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That's nice, Sally. Do you ever plan to make a genuine case against me, or indeed anyone? Or is it going to remain, "Just, you know, feels evil... *shrug*"

And why am I back at the top of your suspicion-list toDay? Why did you switch from me to Kit yesterDay, and now back again? Well?

Oh, and yours was air-tight. “She’s started looking even creepier lately.” Brilliant reasoning, m’dear. (Then again, Glirdan was also innocent, so voting him wouldn’t have been much better. That’s beside the point.) And you saw my post quite clearly, so again, I say you’re just trying to make me look bad. And of course I’ve explained my thing about you and Kit so I shan’t say it again. *nods sagely*

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Nerwen: has slipped slightly under my radar, I know lots of people have found some odd stuff with her but I just see regular Nerwen everywhere, I don't really feel strongly about her either way. Kinda the same with Izzy, I read their posts and seem to tend to agree with a lot of what they say, and what I don't agree with doesn't really strike me as suspicious. Unless one of them does something whacko I probably will continue to leave them alone.

I dislike the level of meh in this bit. She can’t see Nerwen as evil and she admits it, which makes me consider the possibility that she’s just blinded, as I don’t think an evil Wilwa would have phrased it like that, but at the same time it makes me question things.



All in all Nerwen jests and expects it to be taken as that, even seems to be laughing at us as if to say ‘see, no matter what I do I can talk myself out of it’. She’s slippery and isn’t saying nearly enough of proper consequence; that and what she does say makes me nauseous. I smell fur.

Nerwen, you wanted me to analyze you? Now you got it. Thanks for helping me to solidify my suspicions against you.


EDIT that's not an edit: x'd since my last, as I just hit 'post reply' and haven't had the chance to read anything else yet. Oh, and may as well make it official....

++Nerwen

[Nogrod]

I looked at toDay's posting from an angle of who actually suspects anyone.

Sally seems to suspect Nerwen, Wilwa and Kit (and is confused about Dury).

Wilwa seems to be suspecting indirectly Dury and Sally.

Kit thinks Sally somewhat suspicious and seems to be undecided with Nerwen (Dury & me not done).

Nerwen and Izzy have only jumped on Sally.

Dury hasn't posted toDay.


On the one hand I might say this is also the trust-list of mine - unless that would not be so foolish to take it only by itself. But there is something I think everyone should consider.

Like this quote from the infamous Werewolf for Dummies -handbook.

Chapter II: Playing a wolf.

Part 3 - Social relations.

Rule 1.

Avoid enemies, avoid enemies, avoid enemies...

You can only be killed by the vilagers in a lynch-vote (except in the hands of a hunter, refer to the section 7 "Playing against different hunters") so it is of utmost importance you look agreeable enough to enough many players while not looking too agreeable. The best way to do that is not to step on too many toes at the same time. Pick those few (the one) you suspect carefully, don't suspect too many people at the same time as that makes you unpopular and adds to the chances of
you getting lynched.



Well, it's not as easy as that I'd say. But worth remembering. The wolves will wish to make you feel good, agree with you, play along, not suspect you.


EDIT: X'd with Sally and need to get home... back later.

[Kitanna]

Nogrod:
Day 1: Post 1: Mentions Nerwen's "go wolves" statement, Durelin's lunch statement, and Lottie's "let's not assume Boro is bad" statement.
Post 2: Pay attention to cobbler remarks now and not just later.
Post 4: Comments on Boro's post, but doesn't read it as a hint.
Post 5: Uncomfortable with Nerwen, confused with Glirdan, Sally is overagreeable, says Durelin is too attention seeking to be a wolf, but is bold enough at the same time, Boro is low-key, Wilwa is probably innocent, nothing on Izzy, I'm possibly a wolf for being calm and collected, feels okay about Pitch and Lottie unless they're in cahoots.
Post 7: Suggests who to look at based on personality.

If you look for the reasonable and careful, look for Kit, Boro and Pitch.

If you look for the bold, look for Nerwen or Dury

Says he's baffled by Sally.
Post 9: Says he could vote for me as the wise and careful or could vote for Nerwen because her "go wolves" remark could be an intelligent move for a wolf. Wants to hear more from Pitch and Lottie.
Post 10: Comments on something Pitch said in regards to his "roundabout" response to Nogrod's Lottie-Pitch pairing.
Post 11: Says he was going to vote Nerwen or myself, but thanks to Pitch is reconsidering.
Post 12: Comments that Pitch and Lottie jumped as his mild suspicions of them being a pair. Suggests Pitch could be trying to strike up a friendship with an ordo.
Post 14: Talks about Boro
Post 16: Votes Pitch
Day 2:Post 1: Says the last voters of Lottie could blend in better, hiding their evil sides if they in fact have one.

The only competition for Lottie was Wilwa so this could fit those who voted to bring Lottie even and past her. Also if Wilwa is a wolf, the wolves might have felt uneasy with Boro's vote and thus be more inclined to kill him at Night.

However, at this point he doesn't think of Wilwa as that suspicious.
Post 2: Discusses just what had his eyebrows raised on Day 1 in regards to Nerwen. But also why he suspected Pitch.
Post 3: Discusses the votes for Lottie, starting with Durelin who had tied Lottie with Wilwa. States Durelin has never mentioned Wilwa or Nerwen. Points out Glirdan breaks this tie. If I haven't misread says Izzy went after Lottie with determination and Nerwen's vote sealed the deal.
Post 4: Doesn't like that Nerwen voted Lottie though she suspected her only of being the cobbler.
Post 5: Says I give him the creeps.
Post 6: Kitalysis
Post 7: Durelin and Sally could be innocent. Lists why the rest are suspicious.
Post 8: It's between myself and Izzy for him.
Post 9: Votes Izzy after making his case in previous posts.
Day 3:Post 2: Comments that Nerwen and Izzy pressed on Lottie, both voting for her and appear to be doing the same now.

Now Sally may be a baddie. And Izzy & Nerwen can be both innocents. But what bothers me is their clear lack of interest to take a wider picture or trying to look outside the box they have chosen to stay in both of them.

Concentrating one's effort on someone who is a good lynch candidate and being careful not to offend or suspect anyone else is just soo wolfy...

Izzy and Nerwen have done that twice now.

Conclusion: Um, almost none. He's been committed and has given plenty to ponder, but I don't see anything wolfish in him or anything truly innocent. I am completely on the fence in regards to Nogrod.

Durelin:
Day 1: Post 2: Pairs her wolves as Nogrod-Lottie, Glirda-Me. Cobblers = everyone else and lynch Sally regardless.
Post 4: Explains grouping.

Basically, Nogrod's first couple posts gave me a vibe of some vague sort. Loslote is annoyingly agree-able and like 'im going to be helpful!' But so is Sally.

Glirdan seemed like low-radar wolf somehow, and Kitanna seemed like 'I'm going to be the sense in this chaos and skate through silly Day 1 mwaha.'

But Pitchwife could be the same thing.

And Isabel is low-radar skater wolf.

Post 7: Votes Lottie, but has at least mild suspicions for Sally and Wilwa.
Day 2: Post 3: Says she's not caring for Glirdan or Wilwa, now is that not caring as in no opinion or not caring for them in a "they're evil" way? Says Izzy is bothersome in her quietness and I'm creepy. Seems to suspect Pitch and Nogrod the most.
Post 4: Comments on some of Nogrod's points. One being that I got a free pass for not being a later voter for Lottie and also Izzy's question about vote retraction was interesting.
Post 5: Responds to Sally going after me based on Durelin's "Kit is creepy to me" remark. Says Nogrod and Sally both took this remark as Durelin thought I was sinister.
Post 6: Explains why she thought Pitch was giving free passes. Doesn't know how to vote and doesn't know how she feels about Glirdan (who at this point had a few votes I believe).
Post 7: Sally or Nogrod? Votes Sally
Conclusion: As far as her Day 1 accusations in that first set of groupings go I like how she accuses several people of trying to fly under the radar when she has been doing that. She's been a slippery one so far, keeping low, commenting enough to get by and sticking pretty well to those she suspects. Yet if people (Sally and Nogrod) in particular quote from her she distances herself from them. That's pretty unsettling to me

My top suspects are as follows:
Sally: She's been very vague in her suspicions and abandons suspects for those who seem to be gaining a potential lynch following. Day 1 she votes Wilwa, she had a few "gut feelings" about her. Wilwa had one vote at this point and she was talked about enough that more could have followed. She also asks people to stop looking so much at Wilwa because there are two wolves in the village, but she votes Wilwa...
On Day 2 she votes for me, moving herself off the fence only after Durelin and Nogrod calls me creepy. At the time of her vote there was a 50-50 chance Nogrod would also vote for me.
Izzy: She's a vague one too. As Nogrod put it she doesn't try to get on anyone's bad side really. This sort of vague playing and going on gut feelings after Day 1 (as Sally has done) is a good way for a wolf to hide. However, if Sally is a wolf I'd say Izzy isn't (and vice versa) because it seems unlikely that both wolves would be so non-committal.
Durelin: She's been just active and reasonable enough to garner attention, but not to actually gain much momentum as a lynch choice. As I said above, yesterday she distanced herself from Nogrod and Sally when they began quoting her. I find that an interesting move.

I'll be back a few hours before deadline to vote.

x-posted with Sally and Nogrod