T-I-G WW LXXIV: War of the Wolves

[Nogrod]

First of all: I do like happy faces around but sadly I need to bring my fellow innocents down a bit. There are ten people around toDay of which one innocent (Shasta) is able to vote but otherwise is practically dead already.

That leaves four innocents against five wolves (in teams of 2 and 3).

The next Night the wolves will kill me and because neither team can afford to count on the other team to do it, so they both come my way. So no innocent will be killed in the coming Night except me. *prays the ranger gambled last Night*

So how will toMorrow look like?

If we lynch an innocent toDay it will be:
2 innocents - facing 5 wolves
and
2 wolves (pack A) - facing 5 enemies
3 wolves (pack B) - facing 4 enemies

So you can see who has reason to be cheerful and who has not...

Well, if we lynch a wolf toDay it will be:
3 innocents - facing 4 wolves
and
1 wolf (A) - facing 6 enemies
3 wolves (B) - facing 4 enemies
or
2 wolves (A) - facing 5 enemies
2 wolves (B) - facing 5 enemies

That would be far better for us. So let's put some effort into this.

I need to go to sleep quite a lot earlier I did last night so I can't hang around up to the last hours of the Day - and I still need to read a bunch of essays today. So how about everyone able to be online within the next three hours or something came up with more or less a list of suspicions and possible trust? With reasons.

That's just a suggestion.

[Nogrod]

As it looks pretty quiet I think I'll do my essay-reading right now. I'll be back in about an hour and will then put myself into this for real for an hour or two.

Hoping to see people coming online meanwhile...

[Inziladun]

Not a lot of time at the moment, as it's the middle of my workday again. TEW interests me greatly. I've never played with him before and have no indication of his 'normal' style, but some bells are ringing.
Ah, who am I to let work get in the way of WW?

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

AAAGH! We're in big trouble, no mistake about it. OK, anybody wanna confess? Anybody? *shrugs*

Classic 'Oh, dear, evil wolves are after us', a furry staple.

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

Well, it's pretty quiet here. I guess I'll do a recap.

Post #1 and #2 Modess narration.
Post #3 The Elf-warrior expresses panic. He asks if anybody wants to confess.
Post #4 Wilwarin538 writes a song for the pleasure of the modess. It is a parody of a Barenaked Ladies number called Another Postcard. She needs to go to bed and wake up the next morning to get a blood test. She might be able to post before then. She expresses doubts about her physical condition.
Post #5 Modess congratulates Wilwarin538 on her song parody. (She compliments The Elf-warrior in an edit.) She calls the two her minions.
Post #6 Shasta shows symptoms of multiple personality disorder.
Post #7 Izzy turns The Elf-warrior's question back on him. He compliments Wilwa on her song. He also jokes that channeling Nilp is lynch-worthy.
Post #8 The Elf-warrior proclaims his innocence. He parodies a song by Black Sabbath called War Pigs.
Post #9 Satansaloser jokingly expresses a desire to run away with Nilp.

Could be seen as nothing more than an effort to appear helpful.

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

No, Isabellkya. We need a better reason than a werewolf themed parody of a song about paper communications from chimpanzees.

That was in answer to this from Izzy:

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Should we lynch Wilwa now for professing her paper communications between herself and wolves? Or did I read that wrong?

which was fairly obviously a joke. An attempt to cast some early suspicion for future case building?

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

++ Lommy

It's a seer claim. Looks like a great shot at bagging a wolf to me.

A vote for Lommy, the 7th, then this:

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

In the interests of full disclosure, I'd like to say the last sentence of my last post was added a few minutes later.

Why the need for the disclaimer? Extra conscious of editing after the suspicion dropped on Nerwen, though he himself said Nerwen's slip was a 'sign of innocence' in her?

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

I'd like to correct something I said yesterDAY. I also played Werewolf with the late Sally in Werewolf XLVIII, Virtual Reality. Wilwa, that "I'm on no team thing," passed me by. After I read about her desire to run away with Nilp/Shasta, I suspected they were lovers, but that suspicion slipped from me in the hustle and bustle of other things. Also, I realized that the lovers aren't really evil. I wouldn't have thought that a lover would be so blatant about it. When I read that the two were lovers, I thought to myself that I should have known.

Something caught my eye in one of Lommy's posts, Could Lommy have dreamed of Izzy? On the other hand, she may be Lommy's packmate. Or I'm reading too much into this statement.

Looking back at the rules, I noticed that a wolf!seer is told the gifts of his or her dreamee. Maybe Lommy dreamed of Nerwen and told her pack. However, this doesn't explain why both packs ate her. Was Nerwen putting out hunter vibes I completely missed?

I'm not surprised neither pack went after Nogrod. I think one of the trains of wolf thinking going on was that if they left Nogrod alive, people would be more likely not to trust him. This wouldn't neutralize his potential wolf reveals, but it would make people less likely to trust his analysises and innocent reveals. Also, it is/was likely that the ranger protected Nogrod. In conclusion, I don't find Nogrod's continued survival very suspicious.

Isabellkya, I think Morsul asked to be killed because RL was too encroaching.

All this seems rather overblown with the explanation of why he didn't catch Sally's Lover hints. Why is that important to clarify? And the focus on Lommy's dream is counterproductive and time-wasting. The Seer!wolf's dream is simply a tool to help the wolves know whom to target. The subject of her dream would probably have been a target of hers for lynching, and maybe her packmates could latch on if possible. Unless there was some apparent concerted action between Lommy and some others, I don't see how we could connect her dream to her packmates. And the votes were altered because of Nog's reveal.
Also, there's quite a bit of rumination on why Nog wasn't targeted. Really, the likeliest reason is that the packs feared the Ranger, be it a Ranger!wolf or a the village Ranger. His theory has the feel of something that might have been previously discussed with someone else....

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

Kitanna, I think Lommy might have dreamed of Nerwen. Could Lommy have learned that Nerwen was the hunter? Not a certainty by any means, (after all, Nerwen expected such a reaction from Lommy anyway) but I think its a possibility.

More about Lommy's dream. It just looks like trying too hard to look useful.

Really must go for now. But TEW is worrying.

[Pitchwife]

Bah, I skimmed through Lommy's posts again, but with the way she was flip-flopping or being just vague about most people all the time, if there are any ties to her packmates in there I can't see them.

I feel good about Izzy, however, exactly because Lommy was so positive about her (neglecting the unsolvable question who her dream was). I don't think Lommy would have associated herself so clearly with a packmate or a rival wolf, but I can see her buddying up to an innocent, maybe with an intention to leave Izzy tainted later in case she'd survive Lommy. Plus I've seen nothing suspicious in Izzy herself.

I'm trusting Nog to be the true Seer until proven otherwise. There is, to repeat myself, still a possibility he's a wolf-Seer pulling a daring act (and I don't think this would be quite as implausible as the majority seems to believe), but what's most important, I've seen nothing in his pre-reveal behaviour that would make me suspect him.

I don't really know what to think of wilwa. She said some clever things in the discussion about Seer reveals yesterDay, and her reaction to Nog's reveal looked good, but otherwise she's either genuinely confused or acting confused and trying to confuse us, I don't know which.

Kit still looks good to me, I like the way she thinks and looks at things. The reason for her vote (Legate's edit-reaction to Nog's reveal) was a bit meager the way she presented it (meaning that the fact he made that edit in haste may have been in part responsible for it looking 'forced'), but I agree with her that Legate seemed to be in a big hurry to accept Nog's claim.

Now, Legate himself. I said yesterDay he and Lommy seemed to be agreeing quite a lot; looking back, it seems the only thing they explicitely agreed about was Lommy's remark that in this game, people who go after wolves aren't necessarily innocent (on which I commented at the time). The other thing I noticed (and of course I would) was the way they sort of played ping-pong with suspecting me for diverging reasons, none of them very clear. (In contrast, our late sally - to put this in a family-friendly way - quite annoyed me with the way she went after me, but she at least presented something remotely resembling a case.) Looking at what they said about each other, Legate was quite unwavering in finding Lommy not suspicious at all, whereas Lommy found him 'wishy-washy', 'fishy' or generally feeling offish; in my eyes, this is just the kind of passing suspicion a wolf would post about a packmate - enough to distance herself from him just in case, not enough to make anybody else suspect him seriously. So if you want to know whom I don't trust, here's one. Not any more.

Posting this now, and then looking at the rest.

EDIT: x-ed with Zil.

[Pitchwife]

I'm not at all sure I like the case Zil made against TEWie just now. I said yesterDay that TEWie's early posts didn't feel quite right to me, but all in all, it rather looks to me like he's somewhat out of WW practice after a long interval and trying hard to get back the feel for it. (I don't know how many games he's actually played before his temporary retirement, so if someone could enlighten me whether he's a true veteran or has just played a few games now and then, that'd be nice. Thanks.) That's not saying he can't be a wolf, of course, but if you want to convince me, try harder.

EDIT: x-ed with Legate

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Legate

Well, but why a "logical" second choice? What's so logical about it? Or do you know something I do not??

I don't know what Zil was thinking of, but in my eyes Nerwen was rather quiet, balanced and non-committing even by her own usual standards (which is why I put her in my 'unsure/suspect' category yesterDay), so I'd imagine to both packs she could have seemed either a rival wolf or an innocent gifted; therefore not necessarily the logical choice, but a logical choice.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, but why a "logical" second choice? What's so logical about it? Or do you know something I do not??

Logical for two reasons. One is the fact that Nerwen has quite a fearsome reputation, and justifiably so, for wolf-hunting. The second is that on Day 1 in this game she wasn't terribly active, and thus would have left little trail.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I'm not at all sure I like the case Zil made against TEWie just now. I said yesterDay that TEWie's early posts didn't feel quite right to me, but all in all, it rather looks to me like he's somewhat out of WW practice after a long interval and trying hard to get back the feel for it. (I don't know how many games he's actually played before his temporary retirement, so if someone could enlighten me whether he's a true veteran or has just played a few games now and then, that'd be nice. Thanks.) That's not saying he can't be a wolf, of course, but if you want to convince me, try harder.

It doesn't pay to underestimate someone on the basis of newness or a long absence. I'm only going off what I see. If you're not 'convinced', that's fine.

x/d with Pitch's last

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Logical for two reasons. One is the fact that Nerwen has quite a fearsome reputation, and justifiably so, for wolf-hunting. The second is that on Day 1 in this game she wasn't terribly active, and thus would have left little trail.

Okay, well, that would clarify it a bit. I just got the feeling that you sounded a bit too "confident" about this. For that matter, these of course are reasons, but still a bit curious as to why both the packs thought about the same person. Hm, it would be fun to try to run a simulation of several packs of people and try whether there'd be a person who, if in any of the packs, would not want to have Nerwen killed, and thus making one get a clue that he or she is an innocent, but I guess my knowledge of everybody's psychology is not yet on that high level, not to mention the number of combinations possible...

Well. Anyway, I might led Inzil slide a bit backwards among my suspects now, but still there is something to think about...

[Pitchwife]

OK, who else is still alive?

Shasta - dead Lover walking, 'nuff said.
TEWie - see my #191 for what I think of him.
Boro - I like it that he didn't completely fall out of his chair with enthusiasm to embrace Nog as the true Seer. On the other hand, I think the question of Nog's alignment (or his being a real Seer or a decoy) was beside the point as far as the pragmatics of voting Lommy or not were concerned. On the third hand, he was probably trying to get an interesting response from Nog by questioning him as long as the iron was hot, so to speak, which was rather a good idea, as well as probing who would latch on to his alleged doubts. All in all, looking rather goodish.
Zil - needs some more thought and re-reading.

EDIT: x-ed w/ Zil, 2 Legates and Nog

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Legate #190

EDIT: X-ed with PW and once again, the same thing as above - I don't see when I have yesterDay accepted Nogrod. I had no time to accept him or not, I have been sleeping...

OK, I just went back to check what exactly you said:

Originally Posted by Legate #99

EDITNOTE: Okay! It took me a long while to sum my thoughts on this post and anyway it wasn't enough time, but it took long time for some things to happen on the thread, but I am not going to react on that! I have to go to sleep! Too late, incredible, why? I cannot think about it now. Nogrod! Why? Okay. I can't think about it now. GOOD NIGHT. Posting and voting as I have decided before. No other chances. (This effectively means, crossed with all the Nogrod stuff!!!!)

Sorry, you didn't really say what I thought and claimed you'd said. I plead guilty of following Kit's representation of you based on a mixture of my memory of that post and what you said about Nog toDay, without checking what you really said at the time. I apologize for that and agree that Kit was misrepresenting you.
This doesn't touch my other reasons for suspecting you as given in my #189.

EDIT: removed one redundant 'toDay' in the paragraph before the last.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

With basic logic, there are five Wolves out of seven people I can choose from (or any innocent, for that matter). If Nog gives his dream, the numbers will even decrease (for everybody except the person he dreamt about).

I really see the only chance of Nog being the other Wolf-Seer in being kamikaze-ish and hoping for the game to end soon enough so that he is not killed by the other pack. Unless the pack really counted on their Ranger and the innocent Ranger taking turns in protecting him, however, we must not forget that there will be also the other Seer, the real one. We didn't have any counter-claim, that's one quite big reason why I trust him.

So now after looking at people, the basic outline is this:

Kit - I don't get her points against me, seemed more innocent yesterday, now might be pretty well one of the WWs trying to find easy grounds to eliminate somebody on.
Pitchie - I cannot get rid still of this pitchparanoia, although his behavior has gotten somewhat better since yesterDay, he started writing posts with some "dynamic". But with such a high percentage of WWs, it's quite easy to keep him in the guilty part of people. The last remark joining Kit's misinterpretation of me also could have been nice jumping a bandwagon.
Zil - I wasn't sure about this remark I quoted above, that looked as if he was knowing something more than an "average mortal" does.
Wilwa - in general sounded innocent in the sense of accepting Nogrod and even general behavior, however, especially with the rules confusion recently, it looked slightly manufactured. As if acted. But then, in total, I have more innocent impression from her.
Boro - Also this explanation of his yesterDay reaction of Nogrod looked slightly manufactured. Could have been, once again taking into account the amount of WWs in here. Otherwise he tried to be "reasonable" before, but again, that's no proof here.
Nog - see above
The Elf-warrior - actually not much to go about with him, although he might be a typical prototype of a Under-the-Radar-Flying Werewolf.
Izzy - also not much to go around, more innocent feeling than not, but hard to say. Although I think either she or TEW probably might be a WW (or maybe both, with each team having their own under-radarer...).

There's a lot to choose from, but there's also a large choice. The main point is - toDay's main appeal on all the Innocents - in simple words, not to lynch an Innocent (for these reasons, I will probably refrain from voting any of the more enigmatic people - TEW, Iz - unless I get more reading on them). It is not that difficult by maths, and funnily enough, the hope is also to attract Wolves to vote for a Wolf.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by EW

Something caught my eye in one of Lommy's posts, Could Lommy have dreamed of Izzy? On the other hand, she may be Lommy's packmate. Or I'm reading too much into this statement.

Looking back at the rules, I noticed that a wolf!seer is told the gifts of his or her dreamee. Maybe Lommy dreamed of Nerwen and told her pack. However, this doesn't explain why both packs ate her. Was Nerwen putting out hunter vibes I completely missed?

I'm not surprised neither pack went after Nogrod. I think one of the trains of wolf thinking going on was that if they left Nogrod alive, people would be more likely not to trust him. This wouldn't neutralize his potential wolf reveals, but it would make people less likely to trust his analysises and innocent reveals. Also, it is/was likely that the ranger protected Nogrod. In conclusion, I don't find Nogrod's continued survival very suspicious.

Originally Posted by Inzil on EW

Also, there's quite a bit of rumination on why Nog wasn't targeted. Really, the likeliest reason is that the packs feared the Ranger, be it a Ranger!wolf or a the village Ranger. His theory has the feel of something that might have been previously discussed with someone else....

EW's post caught my eye as well when I read through the posting from toDay, but I must say I feel contrary to Inzil. If EW had discussed things with a pack of mates he probably wouldn't have said those things...

First of all Lommy dreaming of Izzy and then publicly saying she's a goodie is just plain oddity a wolf taking part in a Nightly discussion would not think. As Wilwa and Boro have said: there is no reason for a wolfseer to give hints of her dreams during the Day as they can PM & discuss the findings at Nights. And to say "I like her" as a hint just looks odd as there is none on their side outside those three they already know themselves.

So making such a misunderstanding speaks heavily in favour of EW not being involved in any Nightly discussions.

Izzy being her packmate is possible, although I think Lommy's buddying up with her looked more like a wolf making friends with an innocent to gain some good will ("I like her"). Befriending that openly with a packmate would sound quite daring indeed.

Talking of Lommy's dream on N1 the only arguable / plausible idea to me seems to be that she might have dreamt of Izzy and found her innocent thus trying to buddy up with her).

But back to EW. Also the idea that Lommy found out Nerwen and signalled her mates is an odd way to think (yeah, she would have just plain told them during the Night and that's it) - not to say that the hunters are basically the last people the wolves love to try and kill. Although in this case it might be argued they'd like to try the hunter on D1 rather than Day X in the future? But anyway it's still unbelievable she'd need to point out anyone to anyone in public - and a wolf would know that.

Also the way in which he seems to "come to the conclusion" that he doesn't think my continued presence too suspicious looks more like someone trying to think of it himself and coming to a conclusion (making both cases first: the possibility of trying to undermine the believability and the fear of the ranger) rather than a wolf suddenly bringing forwards such an idea. Why would a wolf bring forward such a point as if someone would have distrusted me (and it was early in the Day then) it would have suited them so much better?

So all in all, I'm tending to think EW more innocent than not. That is not "knowledge-based" but just my opinion based on what I have read thus far.



But then again, I'm not so sure about Inzil.

First of all his case against EW looks like an easy case a wolf might make - hoping that EW wouldn't be able to put up a real counterfight or defence and as everyone will see EW's points are somewhat odd people might accept that kind of case as the "easy lynch".

What I do wonder as well is this (quoted up there as well):

Originally Posted by Inzil

Really, the likeliest reason is that the packs feared the Ranger, be it a Ranger!wolf or a the village Ranger.

Hmm... You seem to be quite deep inside with the situation. I had to read this like four times before I realised what this meant!

But it is clear now as I realised it. So if Lommy's wolf-team feared I was the wolfseer of the other team... then they might have feared the wolfranger might have been there to prevent them from killing me. Okay... so you guys feared someone from the other pack protected me?

And as I think I said yesterDay, his appearance on Lommy's list looks the most bothersome to me.

Originally Posted by Lommy's "more good than bad" 1/4

Zil - seems more reasonable than most, although I can't remember anything in particular that he said, which could be eyebrow-raising. He is not giving the sinister vibes he so often is when he's evil.

I can see Lommy buddying up with the others for various reasons but somehow Inzil being there looked to me a bit out of place, especially regarding the way she made it.


Okay, X'd with a host. A small pause, reading and then back.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

EW's post caught my eye as well when I read through the posting from toDay, but I must say I feel contrary to Inzil. If EW had discussed things with a pack of mates he probably wouldn't have said those things...

First of all Lommy dreaming of Izzy and then publicly saying she's a goodie is just plain oddity a wolf taking part in a Nightly discussion would not think. As Wilwa and Boro have said: there is no reason for a wolfseer to give hints of her dreams during the Day as they can PM & discuss the findings at Nights. And to say "I like her" as a hint just looks odd as there is none on their side outside those three they already know themselves.

So making such a misunderstanding speaks heavily in favour of EW not being involved in any Nightly discussions.

Izzy being her packmate is possible, although I think Lommy's buddying up with her looked more like a wolf making friends with an innocent to gain some good will ("I like her"). Befriending that openly with a packmate would sound quite daring indeed.

Talking of Lommy's dream on N1 the only arguable / plausible idea to me seems to be that she might have dreamt of Izzy and found her innocent thus trying to buddy up with her).

But back to EW. Also the idea that Lommy found out Nerwen and signalled her mates is an odd way to think (yeah, she would have just plain told them during the Night and that's it) - not to say that the hunters are basically the last people the wolves love to try and kill. Although in this case it might be argued they'd like to try the hunter on D1 rather than Day X in the future? But anyway it's still unbelievable she'd need to point out anyone to anyone in public - and a wolf would know that.

Also the way in which he seems to "come to the conclusion" that he doesn't think my continued presence too suspicious looks more like someone trying to think of it himself and coming to a conclusion (making both cases first: the possibility of trying to undermine the believability and the fear of the ranger) rather than a wolf suddenly bringing forwards such an idea. Why would a wolf bring forward such a point as if someone would have distrusted me (and it was early in the Day then) it would have suited them so much better?

So all in all, I'm tending to think EW more innocent than not. That is not "knowledge-based" but just my opinion based on what I have read thus far.

I can see your points about TEW. I found myself not even considering him when I looked at tht situation toDay, and thought I'd go back and look closely. As I said, newbies can be wolves, and they can many times more easily slide through without suspicion. The things I noted caught my eye. Now, keep in mind that I am at work (still) and haven't had a chance to thoroughly analyze everything properly.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Hmm... You seem to be quite deep inside with the situation. I had to read this like four times before I realised what this meant!

But it is clear now as I realised it. So if Lommy's wolf-team feared I was the wolfseer of the other team... then they might have feared the wolfranger might have been there to prevent them from killing me. Okay... so you guys feared someone from the other pack protected me?

And as I think I said yesterDay, his appearance on Lommy's list looks the most bothersome to me.
I can see Lommy buddying up with the others for various reasons but somehow Inzil being there looked to me a bit out of place, especially regarding the way she made it.

So, I posit a reason why you were not targeted last Night (which merely seems logicial) and I'm suspicious, however TEW, who's been doing the same thing, isn't?
And I can't help what Lommy said about me any more than can Izzy, or Kit.

x/d with Pitch

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

So, I posit a reason why you were not targeted last Night (which merely seems logicial) and I'm suspicious, however TEW, who's been doing the same thing, isn't?

I hadn't actually revisited your post on it so I can't say. I need to check it. But what striked me the most was that EW seems to be a little "off-the-basics" in a way and therefore I'm inclined to think he was just not on top of the things.

And I can't help what Lommy said about me any more than can Izzy, or Kit.

Yeah, that's the problem... Actually I remember a host of times I have cursed my packmates for speaking stupidly about me - or wolves addressing an innocent me like I was related to them...

But I do think we have better lynches toDay than you... if it helps.

[Nogrod]

Sorry to have mislead you a bit. I do have a wolf for you.

*tadaa!*

Realising last night that the Day had begun when I was just going to sleep, it came to me I could try to make the wolves feel more relaxed and thus possibly reveal something they wouldn't if they knew I had one of them caught.

Well, sadly there's little the trick has produced due to the slow posting toDay. If I'd have time to play this to the end of the Day and be there to reveal the lynch at the last moment I would have postponed this revelation. But today I really need to go to sleep in time so that is kind of blown up scenario.


So sorry to destroy the voting-record once again but then again we have a wolf on the menu!


++ Legate



Let's use the rest of the Day thinking what can we infer from this.

The first thing coming to mind is the accuracy by which Kitanna chose Legate (see the weakness of the reasons she gave). It is perfectly possible Kit is the other wolf-seer. I mean if Lommy and Legate are on the same pack then I'd say Kit is a noteworthy candidate at the other wolfseer - and Pitch might be aligned with Kit.

But if Lommy and Legate turn out being wolves of opposing packs... then I'd trust Kit a bit more. Although it's possible that Lommy dreamt of Legate on N1 (quite probable indeed if they were on opposing sides!!!) and now Kit tries to even out the situation between the two rivalling teams (as Lommy has informed the other two that Legate plays for the opposing wolf-team). Heh, that sounds actually more believable.

But we'll know about the teams only after Legate is lynched.


Legate, you can go to sleep now and need not stay up too late.

[satansaloser2005]

*dances, sings in a completely unintelligible fashion*

I know something you don't know....





Now isn't that disconcerting?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I know something you don't know....

Those of us able to stay awake will know something in 2½ hours I think. And that is not disconcerting...

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

*dances, sings in a completely unintelligible fashion*

I know something you don't know....


Now isn't that disconcerting?

Ha, well Sallycakes, I know what one thing is that you know that the others don't.

And I'm so so tempted to spill, cause I had this whole "why nobody should kill me" speech ready, but at this time seeing as I was not Nog's dream, to my disappointment, and seeing as I doubt the wolves will try to kill me toNight (it would be a waste of one of their kills anyway, since I'm not a threat to them) and they have Noggins to worry about anyway, I think I may shut up for toDay. Even though that whole thing, and other things I've said, should make it obvious.

*goes back to work*

Good night all!

[Nogrod]

A short add-on: I see Pitch fell back from his suspicion on Legate a bit while I made my post. I'd still say that if L&L are on the same side it would be plausible Pitch and Kit are wolves from the other pack trying to get it done away with the other side. But if L&L are on the opposing sides... then Kit/Pitch would be on Lommy's side and try to get even with the other team... well, that is a possibility to be taken seriously as well.

Of course it is possible *reads: possible* both Kit and Pitch are just very sharp-eyed innocents able to spot Legate (two out of four hitting it the right way!!!) - or that one of them is.

I'd be amazed if they both were goodies...


EDIT: corrected a logic-mistake...

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nog

Sorry to have mislead you a bit. I do have a wolf for you.

I know everybody can say this with hindsight, but I had a hunch something like this might be coming...
And once again, Of course you would. And if you're indeed our Seer (as I assume you are), bloody well done.
++Legate
Back with my thoughts about Zil soonish.

EDIT: x-ed with 2 sally-revenants and 2 Nogs.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nog

I'd be amazed if they both were goodies...

Me too, now I realized how twisted her representation of Legate was. In fact, doing the maths and realizing there are only 5 non-wolves left (that is, 4 innocents + 1 neutral Anti-Lover)... let's see:
1 Seer
1 Ranger
1 Unicorn
1 semi-dead Lover (Shasta)
1 Anti-Lover

Assuming Nog to be the Seer, knowing Shasta to be the remaining Lover, and knowing (which you don't) myself not to be a wolf, that leaves two non-wolves. If I had to bet my last penny on who those two are, I'd say Boro and Izzy. There.

OK, now Zil. I don't really feel up to going through all his posts again, but his case against TEWie has all the marks of grasping for reasons to substantiate a 'suspicion' that was decided on beforehand. (Note that according to the maths and what I've said about my inclinations above, TEWie is likely to be a wolf nevertheless, but still.)

EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Zil, sally's ghost and Legate.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But I do think we have better lynches toDay than you... if it helps.

Even before your dream I would have said I agree with this, but then I am a bit biased on that.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So sorry to destroy the voting-record once again but then again we have a wolf on the menu!


++ Legate



Let's use the rest of the Day thinking what can we infer from this.

The first thing coming to mind is the accuracy by which Kitanna chose Legate (see the weakness of the reasons she gave). It is perfectly possible Kit is the other wolf-seer. I mean if Lommy and Legate are on the same pack then I'd say Kit is a noteworthy candidate at the other wolfseer - and Pitch might be aligned with Kit.

But if Lommy and Legate turn out being wolves of opposing packs... then I'd trust Kit a bit more. Although it's possible that Lommy dreamt of Legate on N1 (quite probable indeed if they were on opposing sides!!!) and now Kit tries to even out the situation between the two rivalling teams (as Lommy has informed the other two that Legate plays for the opposing wolf-team). Heh, that sounds actually more believable.

But we'll know about the teams only after Legate is lynched.

Something else we can perhaps glean from Legate's lynch is this: whether Nog is the innocent Seer or not. If you survive toNight, and Legate and Lommy were packmates, there is still a remote possibility you are the opposing Seer!wolf. If they weren't, you are entirely cleared in my mind. That may come in handy to know, as then all your words can be taken to have one cast or another.

At any rate:

++Legate

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If you survive toNight, and Legate and Lommy were packmates, there is still a remote possibility you are the opposing Seer!wolf.

I'd love to face that "remote possibility"! I'd stand for it right to the face!

But the wolves have no other choice but to kill me, both the teams need to go for it... but can they trust the other team to go for it as well? Wouldn't the other team just take advantage of your team and pick one of yours away to win while you spend your kill on the seer?

Rot with the prisoner's dilemma wolves!

Heh, rot with it... you guys have only bad choices; either letting the innocents to take the numbers or let the other team possibly get an edge on you.

Now I'd love a ranger who gambled last Night... that would be perfect.

Originally Posted by Legwolf

You are making this game's voting lists rather dull, Nog, do you know that?

Yeah, I know. And I already apologised for it. But two wolves on two Days is some comfort for that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, well, that was horrible and utterly unexpected. One comes to check if the slow discussion has moved anywhere, and finds again something similar like yesterDay...

To be honest, I was thinking now about going to sleep, something like "if only I could go to sleep earlier today", but I did not mean it that way for certain. I don't know what were you thinking, Nogrod, but... well. There being some ten people in total, of whom five have already voted, and four for me, I don't expect much. I guess it does not make much sense to expect the village to turn around on this lynch. Well, I am going to cast my vote for the other person who has any votes apart from me, I guess that's the closest to saving myself as I can get. You are making this game's voting lists rather dull, Nog, do you know that?

++Izzy

Let me note by killing me, you are sealing the fate of the innocents even more than it was before. I will accept the fate, shut up and join yesterDay's victims in the mass grave. Means getting more sleep. Although it would have been fun to be here for a while yet. Whatever. Good luck to whoever deserves it, death to all false Nogrods.

[Isabellkya]

Dang. I missed interesting things while at work.

I would have possibly been suspicious of Legate a bit toDay, mainly because his reaction to Nogrod's reveal yesterDay was very similar to Lommy's reaction to it. Essentially 'no time, no time to deal with you right now'.

I said yesterDay that it felt like Lommy was trying to be nice to me, as an 'I won't vote you, you don't vote me' kind of thing.

Both packs going after Nerwen is just a bit strange.

As well as the attitude towards Nog's dreams in terms of the dreamed. Perhaps it is a timezone thing, and it it really late at such time, when the brain shuts down.. Meh don't know. But it just seems a 'meh' attitude towards it.

++Legate


X'd with Pitch.

[satansaloser2005]

Good night, Elfie
Good night, Elfie
Good night, Elfie
They're going to kill you now

[Loslote]

Heh. *snuggles my lovely little minions*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I'm back and I must say I have expected far more posting here, but well, the village is not exceptionally big anymore all of a sudden.

Also, I wonder if it might have something to do with the amount of Wolves...

Anyway... a few brief reactions... then I will probably post some summing post when I try to clarify my views on people. By the way, Nog, I hope you are going to post your dream sooner rather than later (with your infamous staying up till five ), as some people in your timezone would like to know it before they go to sleep - especially toDay as it's crucial for innocents not to vote innocents...

Originally Posted by Inziladun

It's possible that, with Nog being guarded as they might think, they just saw her as a logical second choice. It is a rather remarkable coincidence that they both picked her though.

Well, but why a "logical" second choice? What's so logical about it? Or do you know something I do not??

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Legate: Didn't have time to really react in full to the reveal, but his brief reaction was suspect to me. He immediately glomped onto Nogrod it looked like and had a sort of "oh darn I was wrong about you and Lommy" all along.

(...)

Of all those that reacted after the reveal of Nogrod his seemed the most forced. It looked as though he was trying to pull himself closer to Nogrod and distant himself from Lommy. Possible packmates?

Okay, I am not sure if I understand what you are trying to say, but it does not make sense to me. I have not reacted to Nogrod at all yesterDay, I have only cross-posted with him and I was about to go to sleep, and my exclamation there was reaction to the fact that somebody has made a Seer-reveal at the moment when I was just leaving the thread for good (I had about five and half an hour before I was supposed to wake up the next day at that time, so I did not want to stay up and start reading Nogrod's posts and thinking whether he is a Seer or not. I decided to just go to sleep and leave it be).

EDIT: X-ed with PW and once again, the same thing as above - I don't see when I have yesterDay accepted Nogrod. I had no time to accept him or not, I have been sleeping...