WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Okay, thanks Miss Moddess.

Just didn't want the game to be over, and find out Loslote was an evil Shirriff or something.. and we all be 'why did none of us question it'. xD

Heh. I had to triple check the admin thread and such because I had the same thoughts.

[wilwarin538]

9 minutes left

[satansaloser2005]

Well for what it's worth I'm pretty much positive Glirdan's evil. His posts of late just scream it to me and further my prior suspicion of him. So yeah.

Why am I not voting then?

'Cause Wilwa loves suspense, and I live to serve.

*pets the moddess*


Where are the rest of you though?

[Nienna]

*is here...*

[satansaloser2005]

Oh thank tea! Lol.

*snuggles you*

So. I thought you had some things you wanted to ask me, but you never did so I never answered. Unless I missed them. Sorry.

[Isabellkya]

I am here. I think it is just us three left to vooote.

[satansaloser2005]

Yup, I think so. And three minutes for us to do it in.

[Isabellkya]

++Glirdan

While I think both the popular candidates are suspicious.. I am not comfortable with how the Sally voting has gone, which gives me pause.

X'd with Sally

[Loslote]

I am here again, but as I will not switch my vote I doubt if that's much help to you. *pets Sallycakes*

EDIT: Aw, man, I was planning to use my 1,000th post for something awesome... Ah, well.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, after looking again through the thread yesterDay and the Day before that a bit too, some comments.

People I believe more innocent now related to what they said or whatnot in relation to Glirdan: Lommy (remarked about his possible guilt early in the Day because of ), Nienna (was among the first yesterDay to speak and she mentioned that Glirdan actually likely is a Wolf), Morsul (the same, even more strongly), Brinn (generally she said and voted in a few ways that make it seem genuine for her to be against the Wolves, and not just acting or something). The question is, how much were the Wolves willing to get rid of Glirdan yesterDay, there's a slight possibility that they have been decided from the beginning that he's gone and let him be. But in some way I find it more likely that they would not just give up and encourage his lynch strongly to make themselves look innocent. I think some stumbling in the middle is more expectable.

For that matter, my suspicion of Inzil with the theory that if Glirdan is a Wolf, Inzil might be a packmate with interesting way of choosing sides would of course work now. The curious thing however is that Inzil did something again which would be so clumsy that I can't believe he would do that - starting yesterDay with defending Glirdan, while he voted him the Day before. For an innocent, this behavior would make far more sense than for a Wolf. And given now that sally and Glirdan were both guilty, sally's remark "Inzil is innocent, I just know that" seems rather more unlikely to make if Inzil was another packmate of theirs - simply putting too much at risk.

So I am not sure right now what to think of Inzil. Anyway, as for what I have said about Greenie possibly dreaming about skip, his yesterDay's voting was on the other hand very suspicious - but then again, I have read this:

Originally Posted by skip spence

Glirdan – He came after Sally early, long before it became clear that either one of these two would die. I believe Glirdan proactively participating in lynching Sally is a sign of his innocence although not proof. At this point only a very shrewd wolf would actively go after a fellow wolf, because, let’s face it, a wolf lynched is a step towards a village victory, and an innocent lynched is a step away from that, there’s no getting around that simple fact. A wolf jumping on the bandwagon, yes why not, but actively working to make that bandwagon happen, I doubt it. I could be wrong and maybe that’s everyday business in the ww-world, but to me that feels like too much of a gamble for uncertain profits. For the moment Glirdan has redeemed himself.

I think this might be a very innocent explanation of why skip trusted Glirdan, and so in the end I am ready to accept him as innocent, given the other things like the probability that Greenie dreamed of him. But all in all, otherwise, things start getting rather dark. That means I probably have to look at the rest of the people whom I have not been looking very much at this far - like Shasta, Mira etc. I am also growing slight paranogroid, but... well.

[Thinlómien]

Here. Glad to see Glirdan gone and proven a wolf, but sorry to see poor little Greenie gone. I have skimmed through toDay's posts and agree with those who suspect Nogrod. Why? Because if Greenie hadn't spotted a wolf and made them nervous by that, I doubt they'd have killed her since assuming they're assuming that Lottie was protected by the ranger on Night3, they would now have had their chance of getting rid of the known innocent. And, as somebody said, Greenie would've been a lynch candidate toDay probably, so they must've had the real reason to kill her.

This all leads me to believe she dreamt of Nogrod and the wolves noticed it (or she didn't but the wolves still thought she did) and that's why I did. Nog's downplaying of her suspicion yesterDay ("she always suspects me") would support this theory (although I must admit I started the talk about her always suspecting him). Another possibility is that she dreamt of (or seemd to have dreamt of) Shastawolf, but I can't say whether that's a plausible theory before I've checked some facts.

It's always such a pity when the seer dies without being able to come out. Well, we just have to live with it and try to find out her dreams - and on the positive side, we have lynched two wolves and a cobbler in three Days. Not bad!

Now I'm off to find some quotes to reply...

PS. Legate, you have exactly 5000 posts!

[Thinlómien]

Points from yesterDay after I went to sleep

Nogrod must be guilty since he has Sauron on his yard. Now I remember that when I was reading the happenings overNight I was thinking the remaining wolves must be Nogrod/Nerwen/Aganzir and Skip. I don't remember why I thought so, and my opinions are altered/altering, but thought to mention that.

It would be incredibly funny of Zil was a wolf. Wolves on the tops of suspicion lists all the time. But to be honest, Zil does make me suspicious: he thinks so differently all the time, he's been so wrong about things, it really doesn't seem very innocent anymore. On the other hand, the village has had three or four heavy suspects this far, and two of them have been wolves, so we might have Zil here as the quota innocent who just seems darn suspicious...


Points from toDay

As for Zil and Lottie's very helpful (thanks!) Greenie quotes, I'd think she dreamt of

Night1 by Day1 posts: innocent Agan (?) (I think she must've mentioned the innocent she found in case she gets extremely unlucky and gets killed. The other option, which I actually find more likely - now that I think of it - given her flip-flopping on Agan later on is that she dreamt of someone who hadn't appeared yet when she posted and thus she had no excuse to mention him/her. I will certainly do some rereading toDay so I can check who posted only after her and compare that with her Day2 list of people...)

Night2 by Day2 posts: innocent Mira ("feels innocent though I disagree with her a lot") or wolf-Shasta (she starts suspecting him) or with bad luck innocent Lottie or innocent Legate ("seems innocentish this far") or innocent Skip ("seems maybe the most innocentish at this point (discounting Lottie and myself, of course), makes sense and feels genuine") or innocent me ("has dropped the mysterious attitude and feels more or less like her innocent self") or innocent Brinn ("I'm leaning towards thinking her innocent. Her reactions seem genuine to me"). If she dreamt of Skip, it feels likely she also dreamt of Fea, Boro, Lottie or wolf Shasta. Why? Because she singled Skip out as the most innocent, which would be a weird thing for a seer to do if she had two known innocents. If looking at phrasings as clues to separating dreams from other stuff, Mira and I "feel" innocent while Legate and Skip "seem" innocent, and Skip and Brinn seem "genuine". This would make me think that if she had two known innocents, it would be those to whom she refers by seeming (seeming vs seer) or those she singles out by the word "genuine".

Night3 by Day3 posts: I doubt she'd have incriminated her known innocents ways of interacting with Sally. Thus I would conclude her known innocents are among those she cathegorised "good" or had no material of, aka Nienna, Legate, Winty, Brinn, Skip and Mira, and she could very well have dreamt of a Wolfgrod.

I understand I can't make a whole picture of her dreams without really checking who hadn't posted before she voted on Day1. I will do that after finishing this post, but now I think the most believable dream chain would be something like Boro - Skip - Nog. I remember Boro posted only after her on Day1 and he'd be a believable Night1 pick for almost any seer, Greenie having no more than one known innocent on Day2 would explain her phrasing about Skippy and her dreaming of Nog would explain her confident yet slightly grasping-at-straws seeming attack on Nog on Day3.

The only thing I'm wondering about is that whether she'd have come out with one known wolf. I thought this for a while and concluded no. She was suspected so much that she would've felt pretty safe from Night kills and if my (slightly far-fetched but not bad) specution is correct and she only had one known innocent, I think she would've wanted to have at least one more dream. Alas that it backfired! *feels like Legolas or some other funny LotR character who says "alas!" all the time*

Lottie, hold your horses! Now new crusades, darling, please. I'm not cliaming Morsul's innocent but I'm sensing another full frontal attack and not sure if that's good...

[Nerwen]

#286. "I'm here" and IC banter.


#326
Says Lottie is "running amok"; suspects are "naturally annoyed, whatever their role". Says there have been "interesting points" raised (doesn't specify).


#333. Conveys Agan's intention to vote for Zil (Agan's connection had died).


#336
Likes the points raised against Sally, Zil, and "to a lesser extent") Glirdy and Brinn (whatever those were). Thinks well of Agan, Greenie, Skip and Izzy.
Comments: And that really is all he said... hardly anything to summarise.


343
Notes as "interesting" (one word comment) a post where Glirdan seemingly copied wintywinty's wording. Glirdan at #409 seems to overreact to this.


#333.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

More interesting details pouring out?

Comments: Probably nothing here... but that is a rather odd thing to say, just by itself, with no indication what he thinks of Sally at this point. If Sallywolf *had* indeed planned to impersonate the Seer, this could be read as prompting her to reveal, or at least drawing attention to her hints for other players' benefit.


#364
Says he is disappointed by his own lack of input, blames it on tiredness.

As you Lottie mentioned it, I suddenly remembered this (I was coming convinced that she is innocent - Greenie that is - just becasue I knew she had a tough day on D1 and I could sympathise with her haste and tiredness toDay coming to the thread such late). But it could actually fit.

This, I assume, refers to Lottie's theory that Greenie and Sally were packmates.


#378
Doesn't like Mira and finds her vote on wintywinty too easy, likewise Shasta's "rambling over whether to lynch Morsul or winty". Reminds everyone that Morsul's playing style always gets him suspected and often lynched, and that winty is just a newbie; believes winty's comment about Brinn was innocent.

Comments: Reasonable... unless of course he does turn out to be a wolf, in which case Morsul or wintywinty could be his packmate.


#388
Wonders if Sally is guilty, since she seems ready to see any comment as a threat. Asks her if she's "resigning already". Approves Lottie's bringing forward an alternative candidate (Glirdy) and disagrees with Sally that Lottie's plan has "gaping holes".

Comments: This post may have helped get Sally lynched: Nienna (##391 appears quite impressed by it, and as we know she went on to give Sally her death-blow.


#390
Votes Sally (Sally 5). Says he had considered voting Glirdan, but found him less suspicious than Sally.


General Comments: Meh... Can't really tell either way– he's given so little to go on. No wonder he's been under the radar! This could be Nogwolf testing the wind, then resigning himself to losing a comrade and taking a while to decide which one to vote for– or innocent Nogrod without time and/or energy to contribute much. (Note though, that he's posted quite a lot, it's just that most of it lacks substance.) Did play a real, if small, part in getting Sally lynched, but some of his other posts seem off.

EDIT:X'd with two Lommies.

[Nogrod]

(~~~) *grin appearing*

Uh-oh... This doesn't make any sense.

I mean really. There was that "you are no seer" -thing, but that's basically the only thing one could say that would hint towards her being the seer. So the wolves got really lucky this time. But getting lucky doesn't explain why they chose her. For some actual reason or just to confuse us?

Okay. One scenario: like someone said already, maybe they were taking even more heat than we know? Making a totally odd kill would keep us going around the subject for quite a while - and thus we might let our main suspicions from yesterDay to recede?

Well I'm not impressed by that interpretation but at the moment I can't think of a better one.

Btw. I do appreciate the effort of trying to figure out whom she dreamt of but as you can see, Greenie was clearly intentionally ambiguous about her knowledge... to a point we have no way of "knowing" anything from her posting (we should read her closely and try to form some opinions of them to be sure but I'm afraid that we can't quite trust those interpretations fully). It's always a bit unfair to speak bad of the dead, but I really think she should have been a tad more forthcoming with her knowledge. Maybe she felt she was safe, but going to N4 without giving even one clear hint is a little reckless.

And really, toying with a scenario. If I was a wolf and she had dreamt of me wouldn't she have said that openly? She would have gotten at least one more dream and the wolves would be down to one after you lynched me toDay. Also she could have thus given us all the known innocents (or even the last wolf!) she had clear and openly and not leave us into this interpretation-game over them.

I do think Greenie is smart enough to have gathered that.


Okay. I have to run now but I'll be back in the evening (RL).

(~~~) *grin vanishing*

[Nienna]

++ Sally

Edit: x-ed with Izzy and Lottie

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nienna

++ Sally

What the....that doesn't even make sense. Not even commentary, just a vote?

You. Are. Bonkers.

Oh, and because Wilwa's bothering me....

++Glirdan

[satansaloser2005]

Nienna, Glirdan's a wolf. A WOLF! LYNCH HIM!@

I'm surrounded by mad people.

[satansaloser2005]

Clearly this has all been planned by warriors from the village.

KILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL KILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL THEM!

(Also, what the heck? I really was trying to help Lottie avoid a first-Day lynch because I know they suck. And I figured Leggie was the cobbler and we could bus him quite easily. Alas, no. Darn.)


EDIT: Meep! x'd with the Moddess

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Nienna, Glirdan's a wolf. A WOLF! LYNCH HIM!@

I'm surrounded by mad people.

This Post has been buzzing through my head All Day...

If Glirdan's innocent and we lynched him we'd just lynch Sally today... So what pay off would there be to lie? To last One more day?

I think Glirdan's a wolf... Sally I think was planning a False Seer reveal, just look at this post:

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Inzil: Not a wolf. Plain and simple. Don't ask me how I know, I just do.

The move only makes sense to gain our trust... Gaining one day isn't worth it. I mean 4 out of 16.... 3 out of 16 still gives us lots of time still I just don't see a one day gain worth it.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

This Post has been buzzing through my head All Day...

If Glirdan's innocent and we lynched him we'd just lynch Sally today... So what pay off would there be to lie? To last One more day?

I think Glirdan's a wolf... Sally I think was planning a False Seer reveal, just look at this post:



The move only makes sense to gain our trust... Gaining one day isn't worth it. I mean 4 out of 16.... 3 out of 16 still gives us lots of time still I just don't see a one day gain worth it.

I guess it's possible. And now that I think of it, if Glirdan had been lynched and he was a wolf, Sally could be in some pretty good graces right now, even without a false Seer-reveal.
Still, I don't know that it's all that likely Glirdan is a wolf.

x/d with Morsul again

[Morsul the Dark]

I know this will be an unpopular move however I'm going with my gut on this one.

++Glirdan

It got me one wolf so maybe It'll get me another.

[Nienna]

Morsul, that line from Sally has been bothering me as well. I think that the chances are actually quite high that Glirdy is a wolf. She may have been thinking that if I switched and he was a wolf she would be redeemed or she could make a false seer-reveal and if she was lynched it could be passed off as the meaningless banter of a wolf trying to save herself.

Edit: x-ed

[Inziladun]

Well, looks as if I backed the wrong horse there. Glirdan could technically still be a wolf, but I doubt it. It's not so much his words toward the end of yesterDay that make him look better (I still say his attack looked evil), but this from Sallywolf:

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Nienna, Glirdan's a wolf. A WOLF! LYNCH HIM!@

That looks like real panic, trying to convince Nienna to vote Glirdan instead of her. If Nienna had done so and Glirdan was a wolf, the pack would be in the same situation they are now.

That said, I fully intend to vote Mira toDay, barring some major developments.

x/d with Morsul

[Morsul the Dark]

Yeah but Inzil I think a false seer reveal would gain her more time than the one day gained from the lynch.

I don't understand the motivation otherwise.

[wilwarin538]

DL.

The narration will be up in two shakes.