How many Rangers of the North were there ?

[Archaic Elf]

Originally Posted by shadowfax

The fact that the rangers were keeping watch does not mean they were on sentry duties. It could also mean that they were keeping a watchful eye while going about other things. They may have lived in scattered homesteads and would have been aware of anything that moved in their vicinity and would have taken action as required.

I sort of think of the rangers as a police force. They may have been like sentries living in small communities (like Turin and his band of outlaws) in the woods. They had to be capable of hunting and living off the land for an extended period of time. Maybe they did this for short periods before returning to society for a season (where they had regular jobs), and then once again taking another shift in the wild later on. Maybe the people in and around Eriador paid taxes to help fund the rangers?

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

As to how many Rangers there were in Eriador ... it's unlikely that there could have only been 30 (or 31 if you add Aragorn). Presumably there were other Rangers who were still guarding the women and the children of Aragorn's kinfolk in the North. We know that the watch over the Shire and Bree was affected due to the absence of Rangers, but it's unlikely that the Rangers' settlements would have been left unguarded. There would have been little point in overseeing a victory over Sauron and then returning home to find all the women and children had been carried off and/or slaughtered by orcs (or other dark forces).

I don't know how many of the Dunedain escaped the sinking of Numenor, but I think it's safe to say that they would have married with other humans they met in Eriador. With that being said, there were probably at least a hundred rangers with thousands of people living in the region leading up to the events in the Lord of the Rings. The rangers would probably behave as peace keepers and security guards, and they would be scattered around the entire region. So it would have been a little difficult to gather more than thirty to meet up with Aragorn, and it would have been very unwise to not leave behind a force to defend their homelands. I guess thirty is a reasonable number to meet up with Aragorn if an equal or greater number is left behind. Did they know that they could expect to find Aragorn alive at that point or just how much their aid was needed by him?

Originally Posted by Rumil

Also the Rangers must have suffered some casualties in the fight against the Nazgul at Sarn Ford, so reducing the number of available warriors.

A good question (and an unanswerable question at that) would be how many rangers fell in their battle with the Nazgul at the border of the Shire? This is one action sequence that would have been cool to see in the Fellowship of the Ring. I imagine the rangers suffered some significant loss in the battle.

[Pitchwife]

Welcome to the Downs, Archaic Elf! Enjoy being dead, and all that. Reading your post, it seems you belong here.

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

I sort of think of the rangers as a police force. They may have been like sentries living in small communities (like Turin and his band of outlaws) in the woods. They had to be capable of hunting and living off the land for an extended period of time.

Or rather like what Túrin's original band had developped into at the time of Dor Cúarthol. But yes, that's more or less how I'd imagine them - with a couple of safe havens like Bar-en-Danwedh to retreat to and meet at (I think Tolkien mentions somewhere that they had a settlement or 'fastness' of sorts in the Angle, but there may have been more than one).

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

Maybe the people in and around Eriador paid taxes to help fund the rangers?

Meaning who? The likes of Barliman Butterbur (see Eönwë's post above)? Judging from his example, most of them didn't realize or appreciate what the Rangers were actually doing until the watch was weakened when the Rangers were busy elsewhere - let alone pay money for it.

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

A good question (and an unanswerable question at that) would be how many rangers fell in their battle with the Nazgul at the border of the Shire? This is one action sequence that would have been cool to see in the Fellowship of the Ring. I imagine the rangers suffered some significant loss in the battle.

Yeah, that would be nice to see. Someone should suggest it to all those fan movie makers out there.

[Archaic Elf]

Thanks for the response Pitchwife. I've read the Hobbit, LOTR, Silmarillion (my favorite book), and Unfinished Tales, so I'll try to be useful around here.

Yeah, taxes would be a stretch, but I'm just throwing ideas out there. I imagine the rangers would be self financed more than anything, so they might work for a period before going on a long shift protecting the borders from orcs, wolves, and other creatures.

A thankless job no doubt. I guess that's where the desire for revenge against Sauron and all his minions helps to fuel their fire to do such an incredibly necessary job.

[Snowdog]

Thanks for getting some good discussion going here!

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

I don't know how many of the Dunedain escaped the sinking of Numenor, but I think it's safe to say that they would have married with other humans they met in Eriador.

Actually, it's said clearly somewhere (i believe in the Appendices) that the Northern Dunedain (Arnor) kept their bloodline relatively pure as opposed to the Southern Dunedain (Gondor) where there was considerable intermingling with the Northmen of Rhovanion.This led to the 'Kin Strife' in Gondor. So there was a dwindling numbers of the Dunedain in the north over the years, especially it their keeping their bloodlines Dunedain. The question of numbers of Rangers at the time of the War of the Ring, and where they lived and raised families, are a mystery answered by some great speculation.

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

A good question (and an unanswerable question at that) would be how many rangers fell in their battle with the Nazgul at the border of the Shire? This is one action sequence that would have been cool to see in the Fellowship of the Ring. I imagine the rangers suffered some significant loss in the battle.

I think they were just 'scattered' and driven off. No mention of any deaths that I am aware of.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I think they were just 'scattered' and driven off. No mention of any deaths that I am aware of.

The idea that some of the Rangers died in the action at Sarn Ford comes from the UT chapter The Hunt for the Ring.

Some [Dúnedain] fled northward, hoping to bear news to Aragorn, but they were pursued and slain or driven away into the wild.

I wouldn't think there would have been all that many Rangers guarding the Ford to begin with; probably enough to turn away dodgy looking characters, but that's about it. They weren't expecting the Nazgûl to show up, after all.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

Actually, it's said clearly somewhere (i believe in the Appendices) that the Northern Dunedain (Arnor) kept their bloodline relatively pure as opposed to the Southern Dunedain (Gondor) where there was considerable intermingling with the Northmen of Rhovanion.This led to the 'Kin Strife' in Gondor. So there was a dwindling numbers of the Dunedain in the north over the years, especially it their keeping their bloodlines Dunedain. The question of numbers of Rangers at the time of the War of the Ring, and where they lived and raised families, are a mystery answered by some great speculation.

Yes, but....



The thing is, Elendil's four ships (plus Isildur's and Anarion's in Gondor) were not the only sources of Dunedain. The Numenoreans had been settling the coasts of Middle-earth for centuries, and the Faithful especially had been fleeing to regions near Gil-galad's realm (that is to say, Arnor) and about the mouth of Anduin (later Gondor). Although the arrival of Elendil's ships were undoubtedly a major catalyst in terms of culture and independence, and depending on the size of these vessels (presumably quite mighty), a boost to population, I don't think we need assume that the Dunedainic population of the realms-in-exile was limited to the descendants of these last-comers. Tharbad and Pelargir were both cities that predated Elendil (as was Umbar) and there were presumably Dunedain in the countryside as well.

Personally, I think where Elendil's arrival was most crucial was in the fact that he brought news of Numenor's end, and a clear royal presence to Middle-earth, the two ingredients that Arnor and Gondor were awaiting to break from Numenor. It's also possible that the highly talented craftsmen who fashioned the Argonath, Minas Anor and Minas Ithil, Osgiliath, Isengard, etc, etc, were in the train of Elendil--the elite who remained in Numenor where they could find employ despite being of the Faithful, until the bitter end. It strikes me as very likely that most of Elendil's company were the elite of Numenor, whereas the larger, older population of the Faithful-in-exile were of lower class background, having left for exile far sooner.

[Man-of-the-Wold]

This thread, besides the question of demographics, also gets into the question of elites and aristocracy. Implicitly, Tolkien paints a world with sometimes incredible achievements of civilization by very sparse populations. Gondor was unusually densely populated but at most only in the 100,000's. The achievements one might ascribe to the special gifts of Elves/Eldar and Dunedain.

Tolkien also is rather egalitarian or a least benign in his portrayal of social strata; it is fantasy. In general, one might consider the Dunedain to represent for large part a kind of aristocracy or nobility in both Arnor and Gondor, with exceptions either way, under which were larger numbers of mostly: (1) Southmen (like the natives of the White Mountains or Breelanders, and also seemingly a little related to the House of Haleth), and (2) Northmen (Edain-related people of Rhovanion in Gondor and many of the allied peoples of the North, who appear to derive mostly from the House of Beor), as well as Hobbits.

Even before the fall of Numenor (especially in Gondor), the Dunedain presumably dominated the land-owning, military retinues, guards and other elite activities (but probably large standing armies did not exist), in leading and protecting a broad class of regular freemen (never seemingly "serfs" in any way) that largely consisted of people with non-Dunedain ancestry. In Arnor, however, these "allies" were apparently quite reduced after the War of the Last Alliance.

In Gondor, which was also not a rigidly stratified or negatively feudal society, there was considerable admixture and lessening of distinctions and purity over more than 3,000 years(!), which had both its pros & cons, a Faramir ruefully comments.

In the North, even as the Dunedain were relatively small in number (especially after the disaster of Gladden Fields), their allied/subject people were also not numerous, and like the Dunedain they shrunk through the centuries as a result of disease, famine, floods, extreme winters, Angmar & its servants, and even internecine warfare.

Recall, Arnor's decline more than anything arose from disunity. A presumably rather small number of Dunedain (including some of high rank) were lost through absorption by and eventual destruction of the mysterious hill-people. Cardolan's Dunedain were probably significant and only somewhat interbred, but they and other inhabitants of that region were, sooner or later, all but wiped out.

So, we are really talking about the remnant of Arthedain's Dunedain, who might have numbered as many as, say, 10,000 at one point. They seem to have kept separate from the Bree folk, but they probably did assimilate with what remained of the Beorian peoples of the North, who appear to be entirely gone by the time of the War of the Rings, and for example, might have been the previous inhabitants of the Shire.

Relatively numerous and pure-blood, the Arthedain people still shrunk because of plague, war and evidently low birth rates, so that in the aftermath of the Battle of Fornost, a good guess might be 1,000–2,000, a great many of which were women and children, or sooner or later, would have blended into the countryside or left for other places.

As for the Dunedain of the North—many of whose fighting-age men became the illustrious Rangers—they comprised a core group that might reasonably be guessed at (by others above) around 1,000. They evidently maintained, at times, rather long-term settlements around Lake Evendim and The Angle, but probably dwelt secretly in a number of places at any given time, with some degree of nomadic behavior.

How many could and did engage in really active and dedicated Ranger operations is hard to say. Though still rather long-lived, many probably did not compare with Aragorn's longevity, so that probably still many men were too young (not trained and seasoned enough) or too old (to undertake the rigors of extended patrols).

If Aragorn can be taken as a model, the Rangers did not normally go out armored or well-armed, or even in groups, any of which would have attracted too much attention. For the more oblivious of Bree and The Shire, they were just loners wondering about. So, to help effectively maintain a semblance of peace and order, the Rangers in general had to practice rather well-honed and difficult skills. Their opponents, of course, were often easily cowed ruffians or wayward orcs.

Ultimately, despite the Rangers, evil got through or out into Eriador. Even the westward Shire had to defend itself at times and maintain a border guard, and evidently there were small hamlets in the Northeast that fell victim to Trolls. Eriador's main protection was that it was so empty, even if beyond Bree there were undoubtedly supposed to be small villages of Big People farmers here and there.

So, starting with an overall group of 1,000, probably only about 100 were on active Ranger duty at any given time. This they did as continuing service to their subjects, who they had an obligation to protect, and one might say as a form of penance.

The Watch on The Shire might have brought a few more out, so that maybe as many as 30 could have gathered at Sarn Ford alone as the Ringwraiths approached, including having some better armament at hand, but not much or they could have withstood the Ringwraiths far longer (was it some or all nine?). I doubt that a significant number of Rangers were supposed to have been killed by The Nine, although more might have been put out of action for a long while.

I see the Dunedain of the North living rather comfortably, albeit in rustic, impermanent and widely scattered settlements. Some of the menfolk were likely involved in special skills or trades or in maintaining herds and some farmland, but I doubt that they were self-sufficient in terms of food and other necessities. Like the maybe few hundred Eldar in Rivendell, they likely had relatively great wealth to draw on, and they also had opportunities to undertake trade with Lindon, Blue Mountain dwarves, and local agrarian folks, for which people in the more isolated farming villages, or perhaps a Farmer Maggot, were more cognizant of the what the Rangers were all about.

Beyond being low-key scouts, foiling the luckless baddie that might seek to despoil or enthrall whatever little or big people still lived in Eriador, the Dunedain of the North also may have frequently engaged in more organized campaigns (possibly at times with Elrond's people) to take out orc hot spots in the Misty Mountains or the like. Probably more than Ranger work, such efforts tended to keep their numbers in check.

In such cases, they could have armed and horsed themselves as well (though not as splendidly) as any in Middle-Earth, like the 30 that came south to aid Aragorn. In theory, the might have amassed 200–250 men, even if some would have had to stay and guard their own noncombatants, depending on the circumstances. Nevertheless, in light of their dispersed dwellings and activities, such a mustering would have taken a month or more and was never done, and that forays over the centuries into the Misty Mountains or what not were undertaken but by 50–75 at most.

In any case, it is entirely reasonable that only 30 could be gathered to aid Aragorn in no more than a week's time. Anyone would have had to have been locatable with two days. These would have been limited in terms of those in probably the environs of Rivendell, getting themselves provisioned for an unusually long journey, and seeing to security of the particular settlements involved.

So, I come up with 30 being a relatively small representation of the total strength of the still modestly sized Dunedain of North. Why then, though, are The Shire and Bree seemingly left unguarded during the War of The Rings?

Well, as word spread out further from Elrond after Halbarad's departure, including news about the general eruption of war, as witnessed by Frodo from the Hill of Seeing, the Dunedain of the North probably continued to gather and organize. They should have concluded that Bree and The Shire could and would need to see to their own defense. This proved to be the case for Bree, and The Shire would have been just fine but for Saruman's having undermined it from within, which the Rangers could not have stopped, and evidently, like Gandalf, did not fully foresee.

Generally, I assume that the Dunedain of the North gathered and deployed their strength as follows at that time in a generally eastward direction:
1. To, of course, bolster the guard of their own people and settlements;
2. Possibly step up Ranger-like supervision of what tiny, more vulnerable communities might still have existed in pockets of eastern Eriador to counter Enemy-induced raids by mountain orcs or Dunlenders;
3. Others may have followed in the path of the Grey Company, but arrived too late in Rohan and then Gondor to directly assist Aragorn; or
4. Possibly in conjunction with some of Rivendell, a larger number could very well have marshaled themselves in an attempt to disrupt Misty Mountain orc groups, in order to help relieve the beleaguered Beornings and elves of Lothlorien, and so not miss out in contributing to the greatest events of the age.

[Galadriel55]

That is one long explanation! I like it though! Nice analysis!