Did Gandalf have a Plan "B"? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rhod the Red · 07-10-2010, 07:53 AM

Plan B would probably to give it to an Elf in Rivendell to either take it to the Sea and throw it in there or look for a scroll that tells of a way to destroy it somehow other than return it to Mount Doom. The former was discussed at the CoE, no Elves took it for fear of their lives and integrity.

Gandalf acted and thought in knowledge that he and the Free Peoples would have little ability to mould events; therefore he had the mood that they must simply do the best they can. But also mindful that events make history; people just ride them. In a manner of speaking. The Istari were prohibited from using magic in a massive scale, especially near in rivalry of Souron. Their role was to advise and lobby so that he'd be defeated.

Tuor in Gondolin · 07-10-2010, 09:03 AM

Free will always seems to play a determinative role in
Middle-earth. An example is Boromir insisting on
taking on the role clearly intended for Faramir of journeying
to Imladris (with Faramir among the Fellowship the tale would
take an intriguingly different turn). As to Frodo declining the Ring, I don't think it
could have been born by a powerful elf, for reasons Gandalf,
Galadriel, etc. make clear. Probably Sam Gamgee would have
had to be the default option.

deagol · 07-21-2010, 07:25 AM

'I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it.'

I think if we expand this to mean that "hobbits" were meant to have it we get a clearer picture of what is actually going on. I like the idea of a substitute hobbit. I'm not sure that would necessarily have been Sam, as his allegiance was clearly to Frodo, and he had promised Gandalf to protect Frodo -- not the Ring. But it's clear throughout the saga that hobbits -- Bilbo, Frodo, and even Sam for a bit -- have some peculiar resistance to the Ring's wiles that even elves -- and certainly not mortal men -- do not possess.

Galadriel55 · 01-14-2011, 08:23 PM

I agree with deagol that Gandalf would have found another hobbit to do the job. He seems to be one of the few who don't underestimate this race, isn't he? I guess that he was counting on his persuasive skills, the seriousness of the matter, Frodo wanting to see Bilbo again, and Took descent, and didn't really worry about Frodo refusing to "do the job".

narfforc · 01-15-2011, 05:21 AM

I also wonder if The Valar had a Plan B if all the Istari had failed in their mission.

Sarumian · 02-27-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narfforc

I also wonder if The Valar had a Plan B if all the Istari had failed in their mission.

Which means, Sauron wins control over Middle-earth and eliminates, seduces or captures all other majar around. If he was happy with ruling only that continent, they probably could send another mission just to keep him busy with home affairs. But if he is able to consolidate all resources and attack the West once again, an atomic bomb will be the final solution as it happened to Numenor once upon a time

Mumriken · 07-21-2012, 08:25 AM

Oh yeah if Sauron did manage to conquer middle earth we would loose the last noble men and our dwarves/hobbits. I'm sure the valas would intervene before that happened though. If the istari completely failed they would send over some vala to take down Sauron alone. Actually I'm not sure why they didn't do this in the first place. They could have sent orome into mordor and forced Sauron into submission. It's not like the battle would last for long, like 5 second and Sauron would be crying for daddy morgoth. xD

07-10-2010, 07:53 AM	#1
Rhod the Red Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 257	Plan B would probably to give it to an Elf in Rivendell to either take it to the Sea and throw it in there or look for a scroll that tells of a way to destroy it somehow other than return it to Mount Doom. The former was discussed at the CoE, no Elves took it for fear of their lives and integrity. Gandalf acted and thought in knowledge that he and the Free Peoples would have little ability to mould events; therefore he had the mood that they must simply do the best they can. But also mindful that events make history; people just ride them. In a manner of speaking. The Istari were prohibited from using magic in a massive scale, especially near in rivalry of Souron. Their role was to advise and lobby so that he'd be defeated. __________________ Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia

07-10-2010, 09:03 AM	#2
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Free will always seems to play a determinative role in Middle-earth. An example is Boromir insisting on taking on the role clearly intended for Faramir of journeying to Imladris (with Faramir among the Fellowship the tale would take an intriguingly different turn). As to Frodo declining the Ring, I don't think it could have been born by a powerful elf, for reasons Gandalf, Galadriel, etc. make clear. Probably Sam Gamgee would have had to be the default option. __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

01-14-2011, 08:23 PM	#4
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,510	I agree with deagol that Gandalf would have found another hobbit to do the job. He seems to be one of the few who don't underestimate this race, isn't he? I guess that he was counting on his persuasive skills, the seriousness of the matter, Frodo wanting to see Bilbo again, and Took descent, and didn't really worry about Frodo refusing to "do the job". __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

01-15-2011, 05:21 AM	#5
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	I also wonder if The Valar had a Plan B if all the Istari had failed in their mission. __________________ [B]THE LORD OF THE GRINS:THE ONE PARODY....A PARODY BETTER THAN THE RINGS OF POWER.

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07-21-2010, 07:25 AM	#3
deagol Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 24	'I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it.' I think if we expand this to mean that "hobbits" were meant to have it we get a clearer picture of what is actually going on. I like the idea of a substitute hobbit. I'm not sure that would necessarily have been Sam, as his allegiance was clearly to Frodo, and he had promised Gandalf to protect Frodo -- not the Ring. But it's clear throughout the saga that hobbits -- Bilbo, Frodo, and even Sam for a bit -- have some peculiar resistance to the Ring's wiles that even elves -- and certainly not mortal men -- do not possess.

07-21-2012, 08:25 AM	#7
Mumriken Banned Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 78	Oh yeah if Sauron did manage to conquer middle earth we would loose the last noble men and our dwarves/hobbits. I'm sure the valas would intervene before that happened though. If the istari completely failed they would send over some vala to take down Sauron alone. Actually I'm not sure why they didn't do this in the first place. They could have sent orome into mordor and forced Sauron into submission. It's not like the battle would last for long, like 5 second and Sauron would be crying for daddy morgoth. xD