WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

But I'm really curious about phantom's motives behind the way he tried to frame Mac as making Hades hints - and Greenie's immediate usage of it...

I wasn't framing him. I was stating what stood out to me, and at the bottom I definitely left it open to other interpretations, and I asked Mac personally if he could help me answer the question. The fact is I was leaning towards believing that Mac was not Hades, but up to something entirely different, and was trying to give him a chance to hint me to it (to confirm what I was thinking). It remains to be seen whether or not I was right.

And sorry, but I can't answer for Greenie. If you think we're Zeus and Hera, you're wrong. And just a minute ago weren't you saying I was Hera? It looks to me like you're determined one way or another to go at me, once again giving me the feeling that you came into the day with a plan to try and float me as a lynching target.

But since your new theory has me as Zeus, if you wished to test the theory I assume you'd try to lynch Hera first, yes? If that's the case, go ahead. Feel free. I have no special bond with any other player. And if Greenie turns out to be innocent, then what? Go back to Day 1 and attempt to misuse Boro's words on another unrelated party? I mean, keep in mind looking at his words I am clearly not Zeus, but you've formed a theory despite that where I am, and then assuming that false assumption is correct you build upon it and attempt to identify Hera.

This seems like a totally insane way to try and use the dead Seer's words. Not to mention the very obvious fact that he may be the false Seer and thus your false reasoning is based on false information to begin with.

I stated at the end of yesterday that I was not agreeing with your logic and reasoning at all this game, and I see that it has continued into today. If given the chance I would definitely try taking a shot at you with the lynch today.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading. I need to get some food, though, so I should be back soonish.

So far, it seems there's three leading theories as to Boro's Night 1 dream -

- Phantom as Hera/Zeus
- Eonwe as a wolf
- Mira as a ranger

Now, given Boro's off the wall comment to Mira yesterday, and his comment about Eonwe being a 'negative four', I'm leaning towards theory 1 (Phantom = Hera/Zeus) as the least likely of the three. However, if it was theory 3, then I think Boro was likely to be the False Seer, as I think Mira is smart enough to pick up on a hint like that and thus protect him if she actually is a ranger.

And I will say right now I don't like Eonwe's 'If I was a wolf, why would I do that?' defense. At all.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Back with food, and no one seems to have posted... Well. I may have to vote extremely early today as I'm being kidnapped later... so let's see.

Regarding Mac's Hades-hints - I'm not sure I buy Rikae's explanation of them (and the fact that she leapt to said defense bothers me a little). Did Mac ever explain them himself? They looked legit to me - I don't really see them being accidental. I probably couldn't have come up with better ones, so that Rikae seems to be blaming at least one of them on the fact that Mac's second language is English hits me as rather far-fetched. So that's where I'm at on Mac right now... and I have to wonder if Rikae wouldn't boldly defend Mac even if they were wolves together. At least one wolf has no lover - that wolf I could see making a bold play since they have less to lose than their partners.

I do also want to look at Nogrod before I leave for the day. My vote will likely be on one of Mac or Nog.

[Eönwë]

Ok, I've finally caught up with the thread, but I think I should probably do a list before anything else, because this is getting even more confusing than I thought it would be...

[Nienna]

Greenie – Day One is particularly hard to find wolves. So I know personally I voted to kill the person who I thought would be detrimental to the village. I could have voted someone else (a possible wolf) but could have much more easily gotten an important gifted and since I didn’t have any idea who the wolves were I wasn’t willing to risk it.

Phantom – getting defensive toward Greenie but it seems more like innocent defensive than wolf defensive . He seems to be making logical sense. He can stay.

Rikae – keeping up the pet names for Mac a little stronger than is normal for her in a game. I’m actually trying to remember if she has ever done it before when they play together a lot.

I’m getting good vibes from Sally. I can usually read her pretty well so that’s a plus.

Shasta is making sense… in his 372 post at least. I am in agreement that those the three most likely theories and that Mira is probably not the Ranger. I’m also not feeling Phantom as Zeus or Hera. And I agree that Steve’s defense looks weak.

Nog seems to be saying a really lot but he’s not imprinting any impressions on me.

Mac I have no real feelings on either way. He doesn’t seem particularly furry to me or particularly innocent. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of this recent suspicion surrounding him.

Greenie for some reason is rubbing me the wrong way. I’m not sure why.

Tum’s BG vote looks very suspicious if for timing alone. That’d be a perfect time for a wolf to slip a vote in. Zil’s, however, doesn’t look fabulous either, as he made the bandwagon a possibility and started the ball rolling. I also (as I mentioned at the time) don’t like his reasoning.

Those are my thoughts so far as I read through the day. I know others posted but it didn’t really seem worth mentioning.

[Inziladun]

I haven't time to do much at the moment, but I had to respond to this.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Greenie – Day One is particularly hard to find wolves. So I know personally I voted to kill the person who I thought would be detrimental to the village. I could have voted someone else (a possible wolf) but could have much more easily gotten an important gifted and since I didn’t have any idea who the wolves were I wasn’t willing to risk it.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Tum’s BG vote looks very suspicious if for timing alone. That’d be a perfect time for a wolf to slip a vote in. Zil’s, however, doesn’t look fabulous either, as he made the bandwagon a possibility and started the ball rolling. I also (as I mentioned at the time) don’t like his reasoning.

So I'm suspicious for voting someone who'd been popping in out while saying absolutely nothing, though goading others to talk more, while you voting for someone you admitted was innocent is perfectly all right.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I haven't time to do much at the moment, but I had to respond to this.





So I'm suspicious for voting someone who'd been popping in out while saying absolutely nothing, though goading others to talk more, while you voting for someone you admitted was innocent is perfectly all right.

Nienna doesn't admit BG was an innocent there. She says she thinks BG would have been 'most detrimental'. Being detrimental to the village doesn't exclude one from being a wolf, so that seems like a gross misrepresentation on your part, Zil.

[Rikae]

Shasta - I pretty much always have the impulse to defend people when I think they're being suspected based on some aspect of their personality, style, etc. In this case, Mac's "my opinion, which it's frustrating to be alone with," is of course perfectly fine English, but the fact that this wasn't really a common way of phrasing it, and that it would make the part I bolded jump out at people as a possible hint, might not have occurred to him. Meta, but I've proofread a lot of (RL) stuff for him and I think I have a pretty good idea of what he might innocently say.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Shasta - I pretty much always have the impulse to defend people when I think they're being suspected based on some aspect of their personality, style, etc. In this case, Mac's "my opinion, which it's frustrating to be alone with," is of course perfectly fine English, but the fact that this wasn't really a common way of phrasing it, and that it would make the part I bolded jump out at people as a possible hint, might not have occurred to him. Meta, but I've proofread a lot of (RL) stuff for him and I think I have a pretty good idea of what he might innocently say.

That's true, but then when Phantom asked him about it he hinted yet again (this time sarcastically on purpose, I think). That's only one of Mac's hints. Do you think they're all for the same 'second language' reason?

And I'm still looking at Nog. For the record I think he's been going after Nerwen for the same reason people went after Boro yesterday, but he's pushing it a lot harder than Boro was. It makes me wonder - especially since Nerwen got votes yesterday.

[Macalaure]

After re-skimming (I'll start re-reading when the number of daily posts falls a reasonable amount), some of my opinions have changed.

Nogrod's fixation on Eonwe is bothering me. Usually he tries to see things from all perspectives. This makes me a bit uneasy.

I was a bit suspicious of Loslote yesterDay. After starting to read, I felt a little better, since I don't think a wolf would so back-and-forth-y on a number of topics. Then, her attacks on me are pretty suspicious. I might analyse her later.

I think Inzil took the "I think Mac is very suspicious, but he always is, so I won't vote for him" a bit too far yesterDay. Otherwise, not particularly suspicious.

I'm feeling a lot better about Autume.

I don't trust Shasta at all right now. He's bandwaggoning on the "Eonwe is cursed" waggon and the "Mac is Hades" waggon with some determination, but little contribution.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Regarding Mac's Hades-hints [...] They looked legit to me

They don't to me, that's why I didn't bother to refute them. I accused Nerwen of hinting to be Hades and obviously I had to use "Hades" and "Persephone" and "lovers" etc. Phantom's collection looks nice out of context, but it's bogus.

Btw, since it keeps on coming up, with "giving up" I meant giving up to explain my theory, which was misunderstood a lot.

tp, I didn't have the heart to tell you because I didn't want to disappoint you. I know you like hints and bluffs etc., but there's none of that here. I saw it, I thought it was suspicious, I pointed it out, and then faced quite some opposition and had to keep talking and defending myself. No special role involved with it.

Originally Posted by me

In my opinion, though it's frustrating to be alone with it, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover".

My English must be terrible indeed, since I don't see what's wrong with this sentence. "In my opinion, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". It's frustrating to be alone with that opinion."


Seriously, if you people are reading Hades-hints into these statements, you're being a lot more far-fetched than I possibly could have been with my Boro/Nerwen-hints theories yesterDay.


Greenie - is there any way I can convince you I'm not Hades? Of all the cases I've seen, yours looks most earnest (opposed to phantom, who doesn't seem to actually believe in his own theory, and Shasta, who just jumps on it), but all I can say to it is that it's not the case.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

That's only one of Mac's hints. Do you think they're all for the same 'second language' reason?

What other hints? The things Phantom posted about? The rest aren't even worth discussing, frankly. They don't look remotely like hints to me.

[Eönwë]

Anyway, the list, though I suppose it became a little 'stream-of-conciousness-y' about halfway through writing it.


In the Mod of the gods' order:

Wilwa- Not sure. Her first three posts are mostly about it being strange that Boro separated Zeus from the other lovers, and insisting on that being important, which basically led to the whole Boro-Zeus-hints thing. Later she rescinds the matter and accepts what Boro says about Zeus being the good side. She then rejects the Zeus/Hades thing but considers the Cursed hypothesis a bit more. She also raises an interesting (and still unanswered) point about how a Cursed will show up when dead. But then she ruins a lot of the positive feeling I had about her by being the 4th vote for BG, which makes her two votes ahead of me, and basically makes it become a true bandwaggon, which could (and eventually does) lead to her death. And though she seems innocent the rest of the time, this does almost balance it out. I suspect that she may be a Lover (probably the innocent half).

Kath- Has three posts, which is too little to form a proper opinion on. But I don't think her vote for BG looks bad. It was the first vote for her, and she casts it for reasonable reasons (Er, yeah, bad phrasing, but I can't think of any other way to say it right now). And the rest of her last post seems generally innocent. But a quiet Kath is an unreadable Kath, and when she is quiet (which is usually) you can never see if she's evil until it's too late.

Mira- Hasn't actually said anything other than that she doesn't think that any of the god mentions are hints/slips. A BG voter, but if it's true that she x-ed with all those people, then I suppose it's reasonable.

Zil- Sneaky and cunning. As usual. He could be on any side at the moment, but I'm inclined to think that he's on the good side, at least for now. His suspicions seem justified (You know, except for the Cursed thing, but I suppose it was almost a generally accepted fact yesterDay) and his dfgfdg. He cast the second vote for BG, and that means that it changed her from a suspicion into a viable lynch-choice, which in hindsight seems bad, but I suppose at the time was probably quite justified. And I would have written off the long autume post as a pointless way to look helpful, but the last three lines show that he may really be onto something.

Lottie- Tons of banter and silliness, but some good stuff too. I didn't (and still don't) really agree with her about the False Seer leaving behind clues that suggest false Sight. For example, look at Boro. We can't even tell what his normal clues are! Most of her posts are one liners, but the serious ones make sense and/or good points. One problem though is that she accused Tum and Mac of being evil and then held her vote until near the end, meaning that she couldn't vote for either of them without it being a throwaway, which could be an easy tactic so that she doesn't seem too determined to get anyone killed and just voted what she thought was the lesser of two evils. It would be nice if she was innocent, but I'm not completely sure.

Nienna- Her first post makes sense (where she talks about the false Seer on our side), but in her last two posts she seems easily (maybe too easily) convinced that I'm the Cursed. In terms of talking about who she finds suspicious, her three post go something like this:
1. No suspicions yet -> 2. Mentioning Dionysus makes Eonwe look Cursed -> 3. That's enough to make me lynch Eonwe.
Other than me, she only says that she "doesn't particularly like" Zil's vote. She seems like she's just focused on targeting me, which as an innocent would mean that she could miss other things, but could also suggest that she's evil and just trying to shift/keep discussion focused on me (like Nogrod tried to do, but I'll get to him later), so that either I get killed because that Dionysus thing made me an easy target, or it shifts away focus from other, more sinister things. Or both. She doesn't look good to me.

Nerwen- Too many posts to look at right now, but seems innocent as far as I can tell.

Folwren- Not sure about her. She has some reasonable observations in her first post, but then tries to devalue them by saying they're worth even less than the usual 'just two cents'. Also, she asks us to not to "read too much into this vote," which is never a good thing to say when you're voting. And she calls her reasoning for voting me "pathetic". Again, that makes it sound suspicious when it most probably isn't (and she's just being honest about how she feels her post is). And it was early Day 1, and there wasn't much to go on, so perhaps we can forgive her for that. I've never played with her before, but she seems quite innocent to me.

Tum- Not going to go into much detail, but I generally agree with Inzil's long post. And I don't think she's posted toDay, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Lalaith- Speaks sense and wisdom, as usual. So I have no idea what she is, but what she's said seems helpful so far, so I'd like to see her stay for now at least.

Greenie- Not sure what to think about her at all. In general she seems reasonable and resistant to following Nogrod's poorly reasoned theory that I am the Cursed, which he seems to be sticking to no matter what. And no, not just because it's me. She does generally seem innocent to me, but something (I'm not sure what) seems a bit off.

Rikae- Worryingly has more posts than our favourite (or maybe not, depending on your preference) ghost. See Nerwen, but she doesn't seem as innocent.

Shasta- Missed most of yesterDay, still seems to be catching up toDay. Don't really know yet.

Mac- Talks sense. A lot. But on the first Day, I think he focused too much on Lovers, and I don't think it's out of the question for him to be one. I also liked his 'Day 1 in 3 stages' thing at the time, but now I think that that could have also been thought up by a Wolf-Mac. I'm not sure about his vote, but other than that he's looking better and better as the game goes on. And toDay, his talk of lovers has gone. Perhaps he's Hephaestus, and is now just a wolf now that his lover is dead. Of course, the fact that he didn't vote BG is of little matter because it's highly unlikely that he found her on Night 1. But he does correct Nerwen to tell her that the third wolf lover is Hephaestus, not Ares, which might be hint towards his true nature, especially since the follows it with the "frustrating to be alone" sentence, which many have taken as a Lover hint. The way Mac posts looks quite innocent, but the content just seems like he is possibly a Lover/Wolf (My guess would be Hephaestus). He definitely needs to be watched.

Nog- I think he deserves a post of his own, but for now I'll say that I don't like what I'm seeing.

Phantom- See Nerwen. Only I don't like how he's playing and I think maybe we should get rid of him before he ends up controlling the village without us realising.

Sally- Has posted much less than usual, but I think that's due to internet problems and stuff, so I'm not too worried yet. But still, long posts from Sally seem a bit unusual. And though most of her posts are just banter and silliness the little time she spends talking about serious matters, she makes sense and seems innocent. On the other hand, I'm not too keen on her BG argument. It seems a bit of a stretch, even for Day 1, and may just have been a way to justify cementing the BG-waggon. It also allows her to distance herself from the two bangwaggons yesterDay, while contributing to one, which would be quite a clever ploy. But I have to admit it does sound a bit too far-fetched to be a wolfish ploy, so she's probably just an innocent. And it also happens that the BG-vote was at a time when I was tied for highest number of votes with her, so it may just have been that she felt that even though the BG theory was far-fetched, she still seemed more suspicious than me at the time to her. I don't know.


So, in summary:

Innocent:

Seem alright:
Sally
Lalaith
Nerwen
Zil

No idea:
Greenie
Folwren
Lottie

Not enough posts:
Shasta (no idea)
Mira (no idea)
Kath (leaning innocent)

Not so good:
Rikae
Wilwa

Evil Tendencies:
Nienna
Tum
Phantom

Evil:
Nog
Mac


I also just want to note that it's not good that a dead Boro has more posts than four still-living players.

Note: I will write another post for Nerwen, Rikae and Phantom tomorrow/toMorrow depending on how early I wake up. Right now I want to focus on Nogrod.

I'm not even going to bother editing, because I'm sure hundreds (Ok, slight exaggeration) of people will have posted since my last post.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Way to oversimplify things. Why should we take what Boro said under pressure, in self-defense, more seriously than what he put in a post that we know contained hints, early in the day when he could essentially say whatever he liked?

You people are acting like you've never seen Boro as the Seer before. He knows how to work his posts together, and what not to say if he desires a certain path to be taken, and what you're describing is not like him at all. If he truly found someone guilty it was Steve, and I'm not completely on board with that even seeing as Boro may be false and it's also possible he wished only to ping the WW radar via his Seer hints rather than actually identifying a baddie (which is the thing that truly matters when it comes to whether or not the WWs try to kill you).

Originally Posted by Nog

You're waay too touchy.

And again I wish to strangle you. In my Werewolfing career, every... single.... time I am innocent and come under heavy suspicion based upon bad reasoning I respond exactly like this, and every... single.... time someone has said I'm being suspiciously touchy.

Guess what? They haven't been right yet, and you aren't this time either.

I'm not touchy- I'm annoyed at the fact that multiple people are taking such flimsy stuff and stubbornly pushing forward in the wrong direction. It's just about all I can do to keep from accusing you all of being in cahoots.

Mac, sir- any serious answer yet to that question I asked you way back when, or did you in fact already give it?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And again I wish to strangle you. In my Werewolfing career, every... single.... time I am innocent and come under heavy suspicion based upon bad reasoning I respond exactly like this, and every... single.... time someone has said I'm being suspiciously touchy.
...
I'm not touchy- I'm annoyed at the fact that multiple people are taking such flimsy stuff and stubbornly pushing forward in the wrong direction.

So that's two stranglings... not a wonder I felt my throat a bit sore.

People should suspect you more so it wouldn't cause such reactions anymore. I mean I don't remember you acting like that, so it must be you have avoided a lot of suspicions as really there's rather little thus far on you in this game - and more os less none you could categorise as "serious suspicion". So just relax, you're not going to end up in the gallows for a time yet.

Guess what? They haven't been right yet, and you aren't this time either.

You maybe right, or then there is the first time. There's little anyone can say about that until the roles have been revealed.

Originally Posted by Shasta

And I'm still looking at Nog. For the record I think he's been going after Nerwen for the same reason people went after Boro yesterday, but he's pushing it a lot harder than Boro was. It makes me wonder - especially since Nerwen got votes yesterday.

Am I missing something here? I mean the Boro-part? People went after Boro but then Boro was pushing harder than I am? And hey, unless I find better cnadidates I think Nerwen should get a pile of votes toDay.

Referring to Greenie's comment about Hades-Nerwen not in trouble - don't you guys read what others post?



Don't you read what others post?

Don't you read what others post?

Don't you read what others post?

Don't you read what others post?

Don't you read what others post?

Don't you read what others post?

Don't you read what others post?


Got your attention then, hopefully.

I have seen no argument why we should not take Nerwen's possible hint seriously. It was very early (first post) and she could have relied all the people would banter like they always do, so her little one would drown in the sea of God-names thrown around but her lover might pick it: so little danger, possible rewards - but alas! that didn't happen! It soon emerged that people were quite careful not using the banter-mode - and the whole hint-thing became a big issue.

Thanks for reading.

Now respond to that and do not just say it's far-fetched off-hand.

EDIT: X'd with a few...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nog

Am I missing something here? I mean the Boro-part? People went after Boro but then Boro was pushing harder than I am? And hey, unless I find better cnadidates I think Nerwen should get a pile of votes toDay.

No, what I meant was, you seem to be pushing Nerwen a lot harder than anyone pushed Boro yesterday, for the same exact thing. All she did was say 'What the Hades?', as I recall.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

No, what I meant was, you seem to be pushing Nerwen a lot harder than anyone pushed Boro yesterday, for the same exact thing.

And to say that you say this:

Originally Posted by Shasta

And I'm still looking at Nog. For the record I think he's been going after Nerwen for the same reason people went after Boro yesterday, but he's pushing it a lot harder than Boro was.

And you think we should go after others because of wordings?

[the phantom]

To Nog regarding Nerwen-

The reason for accusing her is her first post, in which she says "What the Hades is going on here?" When that statement was pointed to yesterday, she responded with these statements-

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I realise now that the usual themed Day One bantering was possibly ill-advised in this game, because pretty much anything you can say relates to one of the roles.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If I had defended myself more you'd now be calling me "defensive" right now, Nogrod. Besides, what was there to say? I tried to adapt an idiom to the setting, just as we'll say "What the Utumno?" in an M-e based game.

These explanations are essentially the same thing that Mac gave to me today- a complete and utter denial of having intended anything at all.

The fact is, Hades would have known going into the day whether or not he was going to hint, and also would have been aware that such hinting was likely to be pointed out. There would be a plan in his head for that eventuality, surely? He would have an explanation ready! So, why didn't Nerwen give a more graceful and intelligent explanation (i.e. claim that she was helping the village by giving Persephone false leadings for instance)?

No- I place her explanation and Mac's in the same boat. Both make me feel better. I may be wrong, but there it is. You may not agree, Nog, but do you see my reasoning?

(edit: x-post with several)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And sorry, but I can't answer for Greenie. If you think we're Zeus and Hera, you're wrong. And just a minute ago weren't you saying I was Hera? But since your new theory has me as Zeus

Why? Couldn't I still cling on that very same belief? Maybe Boro got scared of his hints and tried to get you off his trail with his later remarks feeling safe enough not to die in the village of 20+ on N1 (not making it)?

Anyway, that was just to test you (and Greenie) with something that actually crossed my mind but which I considered rather too nice to be true. But I must say the results are quite interesting... You're waay too touchy. And really, others have a license to toy around as well.

Just remember, there are what, twenty players and only one basic ordo. You shouldn't be the one who must be reminded we all have some hidden agendas. And you're not the only one pursuing some goal other than which meets the eye.

It looks to me like you're determined one way or another to go at me, once again giving me the feeling that you came into the day with a plan to try and float me as a lynching target.

That was nowhere near my plan, unless you give me reasons for it for coming Days. I'm still leaning on Nerwen and/or Eonwë, but I'll try to come up with some fresher thoughts a bit later as it is sadly true that most talk has revolved around just a few people and that seldom is healthy.

X'd with Rikae

[A Little Green]

I buy that you missed the early conversation between phantom and me. As for your arguments, I'll try to answer them. I don't necessarily think you are a wolf, I just think you're way off the wall.

Originally Posted by Nog

Okay one reason to my reaction: I actually agreed yesterDay - and do so toDay - on what Mac said, that you really can make the argument that Nerwen is a wolf becasue of her Hades-stuff. It is a point worth noticing, but hardly a call for Persephone to look at him.

You can make that argument, yes. I don't buy it. I believe Nerwen is far subtler than that - it just wouldn't sound like her at all to scream "Hades" in her first post if she was in fact Hades who wanted Persephone's attention. (A bit similar to why I didn't quite buy your theory of a Dionysus-Eonwe screaming "Dionysus"...) What I was thinking was that Nerwen was Persephone who, for some insane reason, screamed "Hades" in her first post (possibly to imply to Hades that she's waiting for a hint, or else she was confused about the rules and didn't know Hades knew her identity) - and Mac-Hades, knowing her identity of course, responded with this:

Originally Posted by Mac

You could make a similar case for Nerwen's "what the Hades is going on". If I were Persephone, I'd know who to pick first now.

Even if Nerwen isn't Persephone (and her and Mac's interactions from yesterDay don't exactly point at that direction), I don't think it's too far-fetched to interpret that quote as a Hades-hint. That was the first thing I thought of when I read it yesterDay. The second arguable Hades-hint is as follows:

Originally Posted by Mac

In my opinion, though it's frustrating to be alone with it, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover".

I'm not sure about this one, not sure at all. It did make me raise my eyebrows a bit, but I might not have noticed it at all if I hadn't already had the suspicion that he is Hades.

Originally Posted by Nog

Another reason: most of us commented on the lovers and our need to find any hints they would desperately need to make - I was probably one of the most loud on that. So why pick Mac as someone who had an obsession with it - or pick up somethig like "we need to look at hints" as especially suspicious. We need to look at hints, and I believe many said that.

And that "gives up" -part - as another second-language speaker I see that as a bit over the top. Really.

I agree with Nog on these two, I think they are a bit too far off and I certainly did not see them as Hades hints. I still don't. I also agree with you that phantom's reaction to your (admittedly off-the-wall) attack was odd.

Originally Posted by Nog

But you two could be Hera and Zeus actually? Trying to help Nerwen (eg. the real Hades)? How would that sound to you guys?

Erm... how about far-fetched? Are you implying that Hera and Zeus would make a public show just to help Hades who isn't even in trouble? Like, what?

Originally Posted by Nog

I'm not sure I totally buy tp's explanation though, but actually it doesn't matter that much.

I'm not sure about that either, yet.


EDIT: x-ed with Eonwe, Nienna, Rikae and phantom