WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Eönwë]

Ok, I've finally caught up with the thread, but I think I should probably do a list before anything else, because this is getting even more confusing than I thought it would be...

[Nienna]

Greenie – Day One is particularly hard to find wolves. So I know personally I voted to kill the person who I thought would be detrimental to the village. I could have voted someone else (a possible wolf) but could have much more easily gotten an important gifted and since I didn’t have any idea who the wolves were I wasn’t willing to risk it.

Phantom – getting defensive toward Greenie but it seems more like innocent defensive than wolf defensive . He seems to be making logical sense. He can stay.

Rikae – keeping up the pet names for Mac a little stronger than is normal for her in a game. I’m actually trying to remember if she has ever done it before when they play together a lot.

I’m getting good vibes from Sally. I can usually read her pretty well so that’s a plus.

Shasta is making sense… in his 372 post at least. I am in agreement that those the three most likely theories and that Mira is probably not the Ranger. I’m also not feeling Phantom as Zeus or Hera. And I agree that Steve’s defense looks weak.

Nog seems to be saying a really lot but he’s not imprinting any impressions on me.

Mac I have no real feelings on either way. He doesn’t seem particularly furry to me or particularly innocent. It’ll be interesting to see what comes out of this recent suspicion surrounding him.

Greenie for some reason is rubbing me the wrong way. I’m not sure why.

Tum’s BG vote looks very suspicious if for timing alone. That’d be a perfect time for a wolf to slip a vote in. Zil’s, however, doesn’t look fabulous either, as he made the bandwagon a possibility and started the ball rolling. I also (as I mentioned at the time) don’t like his reasoning.

Those are my thoughts so far as I read through the day. I know others posted but it didn’t really seem worth mentioning.

[Inziladun]

I haven't time to do much at the moment, but I had to respond to this.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Greenie – Day One is particularly hard to find wolves. So I know personally I voted to kill the person who I thought would be detrimental to the village. I could have voted someone else (a possible wolf) but could have much more easily gotten an important gifted and since I didn’t have any idea who the wolves were I wasn’t willing to risk it.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Tum’s BG vote looks very suspicious if for timing alone. That’d be a perfect time for a wolf to slip a vote in. Zil’s, however, doesn’t look fabulous either, as he made the bandwagon a possibility and started the ball rolling. I also (as I mentioned at the time) don’t like his reasoning.

So I'm suspicious for voting someone who'd been popping in out while saying absolutely nothing, though goading others to talk more, while you voting for someone you admitted was innocent is perfectly all right.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I haven't time to do much at the moment, but I had to respond to this.





So I'm suspicious for voting someone who'd been popping in out while saying absolutely nothing, though goading others to talk more, while you voting for someone you admitted was innocent is perfectly all right.

Nienna doesn't admit BG was an innocent there. She says she thinks BG would have been 'most detrimental'. Being detrimental to the village doesn't exclude one from being a wolf, so that seems like a gross misrepresentation on your part, Zil.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Nienna doesn't admit BG was an innocent there. She says she thinks BG would have been 'most detrimental'. Being detrimental to the village doesn't exclude one from being a wolf, so that seems like a gross misrepresentation on your part, Zil.

No, it was here that she said that:

Originally Posted by Nienna

Zil I don't particularly like your vote for BG as your reasons could be applied to most anyone (inculding Tum who I've noticed has just done something very similar)

I, however, am going to vote for Steve as the possible Cursed. I know he is allied with us for the time being but I'd rather vote and kill him now than risk him being turned... if only for a Day it could be the difference between a Village Win and a Wolf Win. I also don't have any wolf suspects or even suspicions so I'd rather put my vote toward the Cursed pull a vote out of the air and have it turn out to be a gifted.

++ Steve

And now, good night.

"I know he is allied with the village". Wouldn't that equal innocent?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

No, it was here that she said that:



"I know he is allied with the village". Wouldn't that equal innocent?

Okay, yes, it does. Sorry about that, Zil.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

An early head off for me, now - I won't be back before DL.

++Nogrod

His case is a big steaming bucket of double-, triple-, and quadruple-bluffing, as far as I'm concerned.

Good Night.

[Rikae]

Shasta - I pretty much always have the impulse to defend people when I think they're being suspected based on some aspect of their personality, style, etc. In this case, Mac's "my opinion, which it's frustrating to be alone with," is of course perfectly fine English, but the fact that this wasn't really a common way of phrasing it, and that it would make the part I bolded jump out at people as a possible hint, might not have occurred to him. Meta, but I've proofread a lot of (RL) stuff for him and I think I have a pretty good idea of what he might innocently say.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Shasta - I pretty much always have the impulse to defend people when I think they're being suspected based on some aspect of their personality, style, etc. In this case, Mac's "my opinion, which it's frustrating to be alone with," is of course perfectly fine English, but the fact that this wasn't really a common way of phrasing it, and that it would make the part I bolded jump out at people as a possible hint, might not have occurred to him. Meta, but I've proofread a lot of (RL) stuff for him and I think I have a pretty good idea of what he might innocently say.

That's true, but then when Phantom asked him about it he hinted yet again (this time sarcastically on purpose, I think). That's only one of Mac's hints. Do you think they're all for the same 'second language' reason?

And I'm still looking at Nog. For the record I think he's been going after Nerwen for the same reason people went after Boro yesterday, but he's pushing it a lot harder than Boro was. It makes me wonder - especially since Nerwen got votes yesterday.

[Macalaure]

After re-skimming (I'll start re-reading when the number of daily posts falls a reasonable amount), some of my opinions have changed.

Nogrod's fixation on Eonwe is bothering me. Usually he tries to see things from all perspectives. This makes me a bit uneasy.

I was a bit suspicious of Loslote yesterDay. After starting to read, I felt a little better, since I don't think a wolf would so back-and-forth-y on a number of topics. Then, her attacks on me are pretty suspicious. I might analyse her later.

I think Inzil took the "I think Mac is very suspicious, but he always is, so I won't vote for him" a bit too far yesterDay. Otherwise, not particularly suspicious.

I'm feeling a lot better about Autume.

I don't trust Shasta at all right now. He's bandwaggoning on the "Eonwe is cursed" waggon and the "Mac is Hades" waggon with some determination, but little contribution.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Regarding Mac's Hades-hints [...] They looked legit to me

They don't to me, that's why I didn't bother to refute them. I accused Nerwen of hinting to be Hades and obviously I had to use "Hades" and "Persephone" and "lovers" etc. Phantom's collection looks nice out of context, but it's bogus.

Btw, since it keeps on coming up, with "giving up" I meant giving up to explain my theory, which was misunderstood a lot.

tp, I didn't have the heart to tell you because I didn't want to disappoint you. I know you like hints and bluffs etc., but there's none of that here. I saw it, I thought it was suspicious, I pointed it out, and then faced quite some opposition and had to keep talking and defending myself. No special role involved with it.

Originally Posted by me

In my opinion, though it's frustrating to be alone with it, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover".

My English must be terrible indeed, since I don't see what's wrong with this sentence. "In my opinion, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". It's frustrating to be alone with that opinion."


Seriously, if you people are reading Hades-hints into these statements, you're being a lot more far-fetched than I possibly could have been with my Boro/Nerwen-hints theories yesterDay.


Greenie - is there any way I can convince you I'm not Hades? Of all the cases I've seen, yours looks most earnest (opposed to phantom, who doesn't seem to actually believe in his own theory, and Shasta, who just jumps on it), but all I can say to it is that it's not the case.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

After re-skimming (I'll start re-reading when the number of daily posts falls a reasonable amount), some of my opinions have changed.

Nogrod's fixation on Eonwe is bothering me. Usually he tries to see things from all perspectives. This makes me a bit uneasy.

I was a bit suspicious of Loslote yesterDay. After starting to read, I felt a little better, since I don't think a wolf would so back-and-forth-y on a number of topics. Then, her attacks on me are pretty suspicious. I might analyse her later.

I think Inzil took the "I think Mac is very suspicious, but he always is, so I won't vote for him" a bit too far yesterDay. Otherwise, not particularly suspicious.

I'm feeling a lot better about Autume.

I don't trust Shasta at all right now. He's bandwaggoning on the "Eonwe is cursed" waggon and the "Mac is Hades" waggon with some determination, but little contribution.


They don't to me, that's why I didn't bother to refute them. I accused Nerwen of hinting to be Hades and obviously I had to use "Hades" and "Persephone" and "lovers" etc. Phantom's collection looks nice out of context, but it's bogus.

Btw, since it keeps on coming up, with "giving up" I meant giving up to explain my theory, which was misunderstood a lot.

tp, I didn't have the heart to tell you because I didn't want to disappoint you. I know you like hints and bluffs etc., but there's none of that here. I saw it, I thought it was suspicious, I pointed it out, and then faced quite some opposition and had to keep talking and defending myself. No special role involved with it.

My English must be terrible indeed, since I don't see what's wrong with this sentence. "In my opinion, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". It's frustrating to be alone with that opinion."


Seriously, if you people are reading Hades-hints into these statements, you're being a lot more far-fetched than I possibly could have been with my Boro/Nerwen-hints theories yesterDay.


Greenie - is there any way I can convince you I'm not Hades? Of all the cases I've seen, yours looks most earnest (opposed to phantom, who doesn't seem to actually believe in his own theory, and Shasta, who just jumps on it), but all I can say to it is that it's not the case.

If I had to pick, Mac, a better way to say that might be 'it's frustrating to be the only one with that opinion', rather than use the word alone (which was apparently misconstrued).

And I don't think I'm 'just jumping' on Phantom's case. Nor am I 'just jumping' on the Eonwe case. Especially today, since I've clearly reconsidered Eonwe (i.e. not talking about him today). This just looks like you're lashing back against people who suspect you. Especially with your reaction to his question earlier - and the way you just responded to Phantom (i.e. denigrating the people who suspect you) makes me think the worse of you, as that's a wolvish tactic.

[the phantom]

Okay, Mac-

Originally Posted by Mac

Phantom's collection looks nice out of context, but it's bogus.

Well naturally any hints are going to have to be somewhat out of context. You can't say "Here's a hint" and then make one of those statements (okay, you could, but then they wouldn't be able to be looked for or discovered, as they'd be right there). So don't accuse me of over-reaching on account of that.

Originally Posted by Mac

My English must be terrible indeed, since I don't see what's wrong with this sentence. "In my opinion, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". It's frustrating to be alone with that opinion."

No, no, there was nothing wrong with the sentence, but the fact that you stated that you were alone and were discussing lovers... I mean- you do understand why that might resemble a hint, right?

But in the end, you say-

Originally Posted by Mac

tp, I didn't have the heart to tell you because I didn't want to disappoint you. I know you like hints and bluffs etc., but there's none of that here. I saw it, I thought it was suspicious, I pointed it out, and then faced quite some opposition and had to keep talking and defending myself. No special role involved with it.

All right then. So in other words you're saying that you weren't even so much as laying false hints, but rather you weren't meaning to be indicating anything at all. Okay. This makes me suspect you less, as it seems to me that it would've been incredibly easy for you to write off the statements as ploys, but instead you've put forth that you never meant it at all, which you surely must know would look less believable in the eyes of those who already wish to suspect you. Why would you say this if it were not the truth? So- at this point I'd say I'm willing to leave those comments behind, Mac.

(Just fyi, in my earlier post I was wondering if perhaps you were Demeter and that was the cause of your Persephone/Hades obsession, and it was the Demeter role I was referring to earlier when I mentioned that there was an unlikely possibility by percentage but something that explained your behavior well after I reread the rules. It was this that I was trying to give you the chance to hint at.)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Wait a second, what? Phantom, you say you suspect Mac less because he didn't write off his 'hints' as ploys, because it would have been easy to? That makes no sense. What kind of ploys would they have been, had he said otherwise? It seems to me that claiming they were ploys would have led to Mac having to at least softclaim a role, so... I'm not seeing why that makes him less suspicious.

[Macalaure]

Thanks, phantom.

I got a bit too irritated up there, I think. From my perspective, all those points are kind of ludicrous, and ignoring them just made it all worse. I can understand how Boro/Nerwen/Eonwe feel now.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

That's only one of Mac's hints. Do you think they're all for the same 'second language' reason?

What other hints? The things Phantom posted about? The rest aren't even worth discussing, frankly. They don't look remotely like hints to me.

[Eönwë]

Anyway, the list, though I suppose it became a little 'stream-of-conciousness-y' about halfway through writing it.


In the Mod of the gods' order:

Wilwa- Not sure. Her first three posts are mostly about it being strange that Boro separated Zeus from the other lovers, and insisting on that being important, which basically led to the whole Boro-Zeus-hints thing. Later she rescinds the matter and accepts what Boro says about Zeus being the good side. She then rejects the Zeus/Hades thing but considers the Cursed hypothesis a bit more. She also raises an interesting (and still unanswered) point about how a Cursed will show up when dead. But then she ruins a lot of the positive feeling I had about her by being the 4th vote for BG, which makes her two votes ahead of me, and basically makes it become a true bandwaggon, which could (and eventually does) lead to her death. And though she seems innocent the rest of the time, this does almost balance it out. I suspect that she may be a Lover (probably the innocent half).

Kath- Has three posts, which is too little to form a proper opinion on. But I don't think her vote for BG looks bad. It was the first vote for her, and she casts it for reasonable reasons (Er, yeah, bad phrasing, but I can't think of any other way to say it right now). And the rest of her last post seems generally innocent. But a quiet Kath is an unreadable Kath, and when she is quiet (which is usually) you can never see if she's evil until it's too late.

Mira- Hasn't actually said anything other than that she doesn't think that any of the god mentions are hints/slips. A BG voter, but if it's true that she x-ed with all those people, then I suppose it's reasonable.

Zil- Sneaky and cunning. As usual. He could be on any side at the moment, but I'm inclined to think that he's on the good side, at least for now. His suspicions seem justified (You know, except for the Cursed thing, but I suppose it was almost a generally accepted fact yesterDay) and his dfgfdg. He cast the second vote for BG, and that means that it changed her from a suspicion into a viable lynch-choice, which in hindsight seems bad, but I suppose at the time was probably quite justified. And I would have written off the long autume post as a pointless way to look helpful, but the last three lines show that he may really be onto something.

Lottie- Tons of banter and silliness, but some good stuff too. I didn't (and still don't) really agree with her about the False Seer leaving behind clues that suggest false Sight. For example, look at Boro. We can't even tell what his normal clues are! Most of her posts are one liners, but the serious ones make sense and/or good points. One problem though is that she accused Tum and Mac of being evil and then held her vote until near the end, meaning that she couldn't vote for either of them without it being a throwaway, which could be an easy tactic so that she doesn't seem too determined to get anyone killed and just voted what she thought was the lesser of two evils. It would be nice if she was innocent, but I'm not completely sure.

Nienna- Her first post makes sense (where she talks about the false Seer on our side), but in her last two posts she seems easily (maybe too easily) convinced that I'm the Cursed. In terms of talking about who she finds suspicious, her three post go something like this:
1. No suspicions yet -> 2. Mentioning Dionysus makes Eonwe look Cursed -> 3. That's enough to make me lynch Eonwe.
Other than me, she only says that she "doesn't particularly like" Zil's vote. She seems like she's just focused on targeting me, which as an innocent would mean that she could miss other things, but could also suggest that she's evil and just trying to shift/keep discussion focused on me (like Nogrod tried to do, but I'll get to him later), so that either I get killed because that Dionysus thing made me an easy target, or it shifts away focus from other, more sinister things. Or both. She doesn't look good to me.

Nerwen- Too many posts to look at right now, but seems innocent as far as I can tell.

Folwren- Not sure about her. She has some reasonable observations in her first post, but then tries to devalue them by saying they're worth even less than the usual 'just two cents'. Also, she asks us to not to "read too much into this vote," which is never a good thing to say when you're voting. And she calls her reasoning for voting me "pathetic". Again, that makes it sound suspicious when it most probably isn't (and she's just being honest about how she feels her post is). And it was early Day 1, and there wasn't much to go on, so perhaps we can forgive her for that. I've never played with her before, but she seems quite innocent to me.

Tum- Not going to go into much detail, but I generally agree with Inzil's long post. And I don't think she's posted toDay, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Lalaith- Speaks sense and wisdom, as usual. So I have no idea what she is, but what she's said seems helpful so far, so I'd like to see her stay for now at least.

Greenie- Not sure what to think about her at all. In general she seems reasonable and resistant to following Nogrod's poorly reasoned theory that I am the Cursed, which he seems to be sticking to no matter what. And no, not just because it's me. She does generally seem innocent to me, but something (I'm not sure what) seems a bit off.

Rikae- Worryingly has more posts than our favourite (or maybe not, depending on your preference) ghost. See Nerwen, but she doesn't seem as innocent.

Shasta- Missed most of yesterDay, still seems to be catching up toDay. Don't really know yet.

Mac- Talks sense. A lot. But on the first Day, I think he focused too much on Lovers, and I don't think it's out of the question for him to be one. I also liked his 'Day 1 in 3 stages' thing at the time, but now I think that that could have also been thought up by a Wolf-Mac. I'm not sure about his vote, but other than that he's looking better and better as the game goes on. And toDay, his talk of lovers has gone. Perhaps he's Hephaestus, and is now just a wolf now that his lover is dead. Of course, the fact that he didn't vote BG is of little matter because it's highly unlikely that he found her on Night 1. But he does correct Nerwen to tell her that the third wolf lover is Hephaestus, not Ares, which might be hint towards his true nature, especially since the follows it with the "frustrating to be alone" sentence, which many have taken as a Lover hint. The way Mac posts looks quite innocent, but the content just seems like he is possibly a Lover/Wolf (My guess would be Hephaestus). He definitely needs to be watched.

Nog- I think he deserves a post of his own, but for now I'll say that I don't like what I'm seeing.

Phantom- See Nerwen. Only I don't like how he's playing and I think maybe we should get rid of him before he ends up controlling the village without us realising.

Sally- Has posted much less than usual, but I think that's due to internet problems and stuff, so I'm not too worried yet. But still, long posts from Sally seem a bit unusual. And though most of her posts are just banter and silliness the little time she spends talking about serious matters, she makes sense and seems innocent. On the other hand, I'm not too keen on her BG argument. It seems a bit of a stretch, even for Day 1, and may just have been a way to justify cementing the BG-waggon. It also allows her to distance herself from the two bangwaggons yesterDay, while contributing to one, which would be quite a clever ploy. But I have to admit it does sound a bit too far-fetched to be a wolfish ploy, so she's probably just an innocent. And it also happens that the BG-vote was at a time when I was tied for highest number of votes with her, so it may just have been that she felt that even though the BG theory was far-fetched, she still seemed more suspicious than me at the time to her. I don't know.


So, in summary:

Innocent:

Seem alright:
Sally
Lalaith
Nerwen
Zil

No idea:
Greenie
Folwren
Lottie

Not enough posts:
Shasta (no idea)
Mira (no idea)
Kath (leaning innocent)

Not so good:
Rikae
Wilwa

Evil Tendencies:
Nienna
Tum
Phantom

Evil:
Nog
Mac


I also just want to note that it's not good that a dead Boro has more posts than four still-living players.

Note: I will write another post for Nerwen, Rikae and Phantom tomorrow/toMorrow depending on how early I wake up. Right now I want to focus on Nogrod.

I'm not even going to bother editing, because I'm sure hundreds (Ok, slight exaggeration) of people will have posted since my last post.