WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by autume98

It has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to save him so badly. I never said I wanted to save him really bad. I just wanted him here toDay more than my other choice.

So now I have to ask...why did you vote for BG? What made you suspect her so early on?

I didn't like the way she kept dropping by and saying nothing. It looked to me as if she was just trying to seem as if she was participating without sticking her neck out. The only other one on my radar was Mac, and as I said yesterDay I didn't want to vote him on Day 1, since I couldn't tell if it was a real suspicion I had or just the general uneasy feeling he always seems to give me.

And it's not looking as though Eönwê's going to be here toMorrow.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I didn't like the way she kept dropping by and saying nothing. It looked to me as if she was just trying to seem as if she was participating without sticking her neck out. The only other one on my radar was Mac, and as I said yesterDay I didn't want to vote him on Day 1, since I couldn't tell if it was a real suspicion I had or just the general uneasy feeling he always seems to give me.

And it's not looking as though Eönwê's going to be here toMorrow.

I can see why you say that. The two I'd really like to hear about why they voted for BG are Wilwa and Mira. It doesn't look like I'll get an explanation from Wilwa tonight, and I'm not sure where Mira is.

No, it's not looking to good for Eonwe right now.

[Rikae]

Nope, don't really buy the theory that Autume's a wolf.

Don't buy the theory that Mac's a wolf.

Definitely don't buy the theory that Steve is a wolf.

I, however, am the wolfiest wolf that ever howled at the moon, therefore:

++Rikae

Seriously, I really hope toMorrow we can focus a little attention into the dark corners of this village, instead of on the over-examined and probably innocent loudmouths - and I have a novel to finish, so tschüss.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nope, don't really buy the theory that Autume's a wolf.

Don't buy the theory that Mac's a wolf.

Definitely don't buy the theory that Steve is a wolf.

I, however, am the wolfiest wolf that ever howled at the moon, therefore:

++Rikae

Seriously, I really hope toMorrow we can focus a little attention into the dark corners of this village, instead of on the over-examined and probably innocent loudmouths - and I have a novel to finish, so tschüss.

Classic! Can I just say I really like your vote.

I can totally see why you did it though. No one has jumped out at me as a wolf.

[Glirdan]

You all now have just under 2 hours to vote with about nine of you left to vote.

The voting tally is as follows:

Greenie ---> Mac
Shasta ---> Nog
Kath ---> Nog 2
Lalaith ---> Eonwe
Nog ---> Eonwe 2
Wilwa ---> Eonwe 3
Nienna ---> Eonwe 4
Zil ---> Eonwe 5
Rikae ---> Rikae (I really don't know what to say to this lol )

[Macalaure]

Loslote

I suspected her, but without really knowing why, so here's the analysis. She also seems to have been forgotten by everyone, so I hope this might change it a little.

She's the first to make actual points, which one could interpret as a wolf trying to look helpful and not banter too much. However, her following posts are rather "light" in points. A lot about roles etc. and a lot about people's possible hints.

Her first actual suspicion is only on page 4 - erroneously thinking Nerwen's hint might point to her being Persephone. She believes the theory that Eonwe is the cursed, but doesn't want to lynch him (sensible opinion, I think).

Makes a list which has everybody innocent except for slight suspicions towards me and Autume. (Not stepping on too many people's toes. However, it's just a mid-Day1 list.) Disagrees with me about Zeus's almightiness. (Being the most mighty and being almighty is not the same.) She agrees with me that we shouldn't lynch BG, and suggests me instead (and Autume). She keeps on stating to want to lynch me and her multiple times, and that I find very suspicious. In her list, Tum and me stood out as most suspicious, but it looked more like we were 2/10 in a sea of 1/10. Looking at #231, #234, #260, it really seems to me like she used the list to be able to justify singling out two and then being able to keep those around as prime suspects without having to answer any more questions about it.

She votes Eonwe since Tum and I are not going to be lynched, Eonwe is probably the cursed, and everybody else is still innocent. She notes that BG-voters need to be looked at. Sensible, but also convenient for a wolf who voted someone else. She covers the case of Eonwe being lynched by saying if he's innocent, we need to look at Nogrod (the unpicked cursed villager is an ordo in the tally. If the theory is right, we definitely would have lynched an innocent).

ToDay she starts with suppressed anger and a new list, which looks suspiciously like the old one, except that Nogrod is suspicious now, too. She backs off me a little bit. She suspects Nogrod because he didn't vote for Eonwe. Not exactly a great argument, but alright, except that she could have made the same point yesterDay, after his vote, already. But yesterDay she was content to carry only Tum and me around.


There are several things that could be both evil or good, but the way she handled her suspicions of Autume and me, talks about the BG-waggon and Eonwe's possible innocence (each on its own fine, but in combination it looks bad), and the reason for suspecting Nogrod look rather bad. Prime suspect now, since I lack other strong suspects at the moment.

[Macalaure]

*tries to think of a polite word to describe the Eonwe-bandwaggon*

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

*tries to think of a polite word to describe the Eonwe-bandwaggon*

Don't bother, Mac, they'll just think you're dropping Lover-hints.

About Eönwë: what I'm not keen on is that everyone who votes him seems to be doing it for a completely different reason.

(Not to mention that certain parties *cough* Nogrod *cough* have seemingly ignored the points other people have already made against their arguments.)

For my own part, I do think the fact that the Seer voted Steve while making the cryptic "neg 4" remark– and got killed in the Night may be significant. I've said why I don't think Boro actually dreamed an Eonwolf, but if such he is, it might be enough if the pack thought he had.

Not that I've decided to vote him yet, at all.

EDIT:X'd with everyone again.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I didn't overlook it, of course. You overlooked that I commented on it.

The fact that you commented on it was meant to be part of the point - you're picking and choosing. You mention it for a matter of wording, then say that I didn't use the argument Day 1.

Anyway, you said you would look for Nogrod depending on Eonwe's innocence. Eonwe did not get lynched, and your reasons for Nogrod toDay are independent of Eonwe's role, but are founded on Nogrod not voting for him. The case you presented toDay was readily available yesterDay.

No, I said that if Steve was proven innocent, we really needed to look at Nog. The fact that he wasn't lynched and proven innocent doesn't negate this, it simply makes it less obvious.

You only picked this one item out of my reasons to suspect you. I usually do that when I'm a wolf: picking the few things I can defend myself against to discredit a whole analysis.

Alright:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Loslote

I suspected her, but without really knowing why, so here's the analysis. She also seems to have been forgotten by everyone, so I hope this might change it a little.

She's the first to make actual points, which one could interpret as a wolf trying to look helpful and not banter too much. However, her following posts are rather "light" in points. A lot about roles etc. and a lot about people's possible hints.

Yeah, that's me. I'm rather silly. I'm rather okay with this.

Her first actual suspicion is only on page 4 - erroneously thinking Nerwen's hint might point to her being Persephone. She believes the theory that Eonwe is the cursed, but doesn't want to lynch him (sensible opinion, I think).

Wait, by "only" do you mean I should have waited longer? Like, for instance, Nog, The Phantom, and you did?

Makes a list which has everybody innocent except for slight suspicions towards me and Autume. (Not stepping on too many people's toes. However, it's just a mid-Day1 list.) Disagrees with me about Zeus's almightiness. (Being the most mighty and being almighty is not the same.) She agrees with me that we shouldn't lynch BG, and suggests me instead (and Autume). She keeps on stating to want to lynch me and her multiple times, and that I find very suspicious. In her list, Tum and me stood out as most suspicious, but it looked more like we were 2/10 in a sea of 1/10. Looking at #231, #234, #260, it really seems to me like she used the list to be able to justify singling out two and then being able to keep those around as prime suspects without having to answer any more questions about it.

I was partly trying to remind Tum that there were other options, something she adamently denies existed.

Could you explain the bold? I'm afraid I don't follow your argument or your example.

She votes Eonwe since Tum and I are not going to be lynched, Eonwe is probably the cursed, and everybody else is still innocent. She notes that BG-voters need to be looked at. Sensible, but also convenient for a wolf who voted someone else. She covers the case of Eonwe being lynched by saying if he's innocent, we need to look at Nogrod (the unpicked cursed villager is an ordo in the tally. If the theory is right, we definitely would have lynched an innocent).

I was under the impression that he would be labled "Dionysis." The BeiGei voters, especially later on, were suspicious. Convenient? More like I thought that particular bandwagon was very ill-advised and wanted no part in it.

ToDay she starts with suppressed anger and a new list, which looks suspiciously like the old one, except that Nogrod is suspicious now, too. She backs off me a little bit. She suspects Nogrod because he didn't vote for Eonwe. Not exactly a great argument, but alright, except that she could have made the same point yesterDay, after his vote, already. But yesterDay she was content to carry only Tum and me around.

Supressed anger, yes. Could have made the same point, yes. As it happens, I did.

There are several things that could be both evil or good, but the way she handled her suspicions of Autume and me, talks about the BG-waggon and Eonwe's possible innocence (each on its own fine, but in combination it looks bad), and the reason for suspecting Nogrod look rather bad. Prime suspect now, since I lack other strong suspects at the moment.

Why is the combination particularly bad?

If I'm alive toMorrow, I'll have analysis, don't worry. I was pressed for time toDay, as I had stated explicitly more than once.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lottie

Could you explain the bold? I'm afraid I don't follow your argument or your example.

The arguments you gave in your list against Tum and me were not exactly strong. That's fine for a mid-Day1 list, but to keep those two names around til deadline without considering voting anybody else, that's not good. And you didn't consider voting anybody else: you did not want to vote for Eonwe, you just didn't mind it. And while you talked about Nogrod, you didn't ponder voting for him, but maintained Tum and me based on little reasoning.

Originally Posted by Lottie

Why is the combination particularly bad?

Because it's a way to supply yourself with suspects for Day2 in a very convenient manner. If A dies we have to look at the people voting her, if B dies, the person creating the case against him should be looked at.

[Macalaure]

Voting somebody random instead of Eonwe? Not really. I asked around what people's options were, so that we would not consider lynching someone random, but one that is suspected.

Lottie and Nienna were the ones I was planning to analyse toDay, but time restricted me to Lottie. I can't offer any good points against Nienna, but I do remember having a bad feeling reading any of her posts.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The arguments you gave in your list against Tum and me were not exactly strong. That's fine for a mid-Day1 list, but to keep those two names around til deadline without considering voting anybody else, that's not good. And you didn't consider voting anybody else: you did not want to vote for Eonwe, you just didn't mind it. And while you talked about Nogrod, you didn't ponder voting for him, but maintained Tum and me based on little reasoning.

That doesn't explain the bold, but okay. I did look at other people, but none jumped out at me as suspicious. Nog was not a vote option on Day 1.

Because it's a way to supply yourself with suspects for Day2 in a very convenient manner. If A dies we have to look at the people voting her, if B dies, the person creating the case against him should be looked at.

I see your point. And I admit that it's a good one. But they were both suspicious. What would you prefer, I wrote them all off as being wolvish to pursue and wallowed about with no suspicions?

[the phantom]

Okay, so I'm just thinking out loud here- I realize that from a cut and dry view Eonwe is the logical choice given the Seer death as well as the voting yesterday, but I also think that he should not win in a landslide. If he is in fact a WW, shouldn't we at least offer his mates a chance to save him (put at least one other person in position to be lynched)?

But I'm thinking that might not work, as given the strong wind that is blowing combined with the possible Boro dream, his mates are probably more than willing to throw him under the bus and simply hop on board, and thus if we lynch those who try to save him we'd just lynch innocents.

But of course I don't firmly believe he's even a WW anyway. I think Boro was probably the false Seer. Bleh. If Eonwe gets lynched and I've been wrong all along and Nog is proven correct, I'll be high on the lists tomorrow.

Anyway, earlier I was considering a campaign against a submarine (to try and bully them into talking more), but I found that I could not decide between our low posters as none of them particularly stood out as bad. But then that's the point of the submarines, isn't it? Please, I'd like to see more tomorrow from some of you!

All in all I feel that I haven't completely found my footing yet, however, I think I'm getting there slowly. At the least there are a few people that I'm beginning to move rather firmly into the innocent column, and that's a place to start. Mac seems rather good at this point. I like Nerwen. For how quiet she's been Folwren feels rather good to me. Meeper as well.

And Rikae votes for herself? Didn't like the idea of there being no Cobbler, eh? I'm not going to hold this against you at all, but be careful dearie- I can bet you a few people are going to use this against you tomorrow. You'd better be ready to fight off the lynch mob.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

On my way to sleep...

I need to revisit Nerwen, just for a short while. Promise.

I admit I was suspecting her for partly wrong reasons (for picking exactly Hades from all the other possibilities and thus being too fitting). The fact that it was just a play with "What the he**!" curse took that point off. But actually, like I said before, if she was Hades, it would make even more sense to use that cursing as the suspicions could be answered just the way she did - and to which both Rikae and tp pointed. So other than be less believable it turns out to be more believable.

Oh, well, I need to revisit Nogrod, just for a short while. Here we have another fine example of the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" reasoning to which I alluded yesterDay.

Thing is, Nog, I've been trying to think back to past games, and as far as I can remember, when you've played like this before, you've generally been a wolf. I well remember what I dubbed your "heads he's furry, tails he's a wolf" case on skip spence.

Or are you indeed just jet-lagged?

I agree, though, that it might be worth lynching Steve to see what he is. But then tum is looking increasingly wicked...

EDIT:X'd with a host.

[Macalaure]

Well, if Eonwe is neither wolf nor cursed, as I suspect, at least I will have plenty of good suspects toMorrow.

[Rikae]

Makkie, you forget that I'm supposed to fight off a lynch mob tomorrow.

[Rikae]

Now, really, the stupid novel. Where was I...

[Macalaure]

After those two votes, you probably deserve that, love.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mac

Well, if Eonwe is neither wolf nor cursed, as I suspect, at least I will have plenty of good suspects toMorrow.

Which is reason 1A why I have defended him while not outright campaigning for him. Reason 1B is that I have little better to offer. I mean- Nog in my opinion has been really odd with his logic and arguments this game, but being wrong doesn't make him evil. Your target, Lottie- I'll admit that I have no feelings whatsoever. She's one of the ones that has fallen through the cracks of my mind thus far.

And would you stop using that L-word! Haven't we had enough fun with hints today?

(x-posted with a few)

[Macalaure]

I'd love to, but I just can't help it.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mac

Anybody have preferences other than Eonwe?

Not anything strong. But there might be a couple I'd roll the dice on if you wanted to give them a try. One of the low-posters? Nienna maybe? I dunno. You said Lottie earlier- heck why not? And what do you think of Nog? Wait and see if he's right first, or push him to the brink?

(x-post Mac, who posted ANOTHER hint *makes note to guess Mac as Hades tonight*)

[autume98]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Which is reason 1A why I have defended him while not outright campaigning for him. Reason 1B is that I have little better to offer. I mean- Nog in my opinion has been really odd with his logic and arguments this game, but being wrong doesn't make him evil. Your target, Lottie- I'll admit that I have no feelings whatsoever. She's one of the ones that has fallen through the cracks of my mind thus far.

And would you stop using that L-word! Haven't we had enough fun with hints today?

Maybe I haven't played with Nog enough yet. It seems as thought a few people have made comments about him acting strange. So I could be wrong about him.

As for Lottie, I haven't heard enough from her outside of her gunning for Mac and me. I think I'd like to know more about her reasoning and let her explain herself before I go after her.

Anyone else is pretty much fair game. I don't feel strongly about anyone at this point.

Edit: x-ed with both of tp's posts

[the phantom]

The Tally:

Greenie ==> Mac
Shasta ==> Nog
Kath ===> Nog (2)
Lalaith ==> Eonwe
Nog ====> Eonwe (2)
Wilwa ==> Eonwe (3)
Nienna ==> Eonwe (4)
Inzil ====> Eonwe (5)
Rikae ===> Rikae

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There's the enigmatic number -4. Was Boro trying to hint he was not that big a baddie or just trying to protect himself not going outright naming him -10 or somethig? I don't know.

Really, I think that was more of a continuation of an elegant but efficiant way of describing role value. I don't think it was a Seer hint.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I mean someone you just dislike might be a goodie and someone you love might be a baddie. (coughWilwaSallycough)

I do NOT play favorites. You can say that I become obsessive in my suspicions. This is true. You can say that I can easily be wrong in these obsessive suspicions. This is true. You can say that I have a tendancy to be silly. This is true. But you CAN NOT say that I play favorites. I do not pass someone I "love" (there's that word again - are you hinting, Nog?) as innocent without a second glance. I do not automatically call for those I "dislike" to die. As a matter of fact, I do not "dislike" anyone playing in this game.

Originally Posted by autume98

Well Mac wanted to actually go for a wolf. I was cool with that. We weren't getting anywhere by suspecting each other. So I left him alone. Besides I knew at this point there was no way I'd be able to lynch him.

Yes Eonwe only had 4 votes and BG had 5. And if I voted for Eonwe then they both would've had 5. So by voting for BG I was doing what I could to keep Eonwe yesterDay as I wanted BG gone more than I wanted Eonwe gone. Does that make sense?

Wait, wait. So you were fine with Mac because he wanted to go hunt for wolves, and you instantly give up on wolf-hunting to pick between innocents?

Originally Posted by Macalaure

ToDay she starts with suppressed anger and a new list, which looks suspiciously like the old one, except that Nogrod is suspicious now, too. She backs off me a little bit. She suspects Nogrod because he didn't vote for Eonwe. Not exactly a great argument, but alright, except that she could have made the same point yesterDay, after his vote, already. But yesterDay she was content to carry only Tum and me around.

In case you didn't notice, that post where I said to look at Nog if Steve were lynched did make that point yesterDay. I would have posted more, but you see, I really didn't have time. I mentioned that I wouldn't really be around. Don't you read what others post?

Anyways, I'm sure I've xed with tons of people. The last bit I saw was people thinking about lynching me. All I can say is:

Do it. Really, go ahead. I'm not upset, I'm not tired of the game in any way, and this is not said in anger. I wouldn't mind being lynched.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Wait, wait. So you were fine with Mac because he wanted to go hunt for wolves, and you instantly give up on wolf-hunting to pick between innocents?

Here's the post where I explain in more detail why I choose BG.

Edit: x-ed with Eonwe, tp, and Eonwe again

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Loslote

In case you didn't notice, that post where I said to look at Nog if Steve were lynched did make that point yesterDay. I would have posted more, but you see, I really didn't have time. I mentioned that I wouldn't really be around. Don't you read what others post?

I didn't overlook it, of course. You overlooked that I commented on it.

Anyway, you said you would look for Nogrod depending on Eonwe's innocence. Eonwe did not get lynched, and your reasons for Nogrod toDay are independent of Eonwe's role, but are founded on Nogrod not voting for him. The case you presented toDay was readily available yesterDay.

You only picked this one item out of my reasons to suspect you. I usually do that when I'm a wolf: picking the few things I can defend myself against to discredit a whole analysis.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

The last bit I saw was people thinking about lynching me. All I can say is:

Do it. Really, go ahead. I'm not upset, I'm not tired of the game in any way, and this is not said in anger. I wouldn't mind being lynched.

??? Is this a conundrum?

[autume98]

So I went to do my analysis on Rikae. For the most part she comes across as innocent. And it's my experience that when she comes off innocent she's really a wolf. I also didn't like her votes. She admits that her vote for phantom would be a throw away vote and then does it anyway?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hm, so apparently the narration will indicate when the cursed is turned - the ModGod has spoken. In that case, there really is no reason to go lynching Steve now.
I don't really want to vote for BG, since as far as I'm concerned she's done just as little to show she's a wolf as to show she isn't - but I still might vote for her for plain old lack of participation and sleeping under the reindeer. My other suspects are Nerwen, but I still think it's quite likely what she said was IC banter and I wouldn't like to lynch her for that; Phantom, but he hasn't explained himself and it would be a throwaway vote anyway, and Wilwa, simply because of the way she seemed to be trying to stir up suspicions around Boro's remarks while keeping her hands clean, so to speak, but again, that would be a throwaway.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm not going to vote BG because, well, it seems a little harsh at this point. The point about not participating has been made, and I don't see her as especially wolfish. I also don't see much purpose in voting for Steve: he hasn't had a chance to explain his "hint", and, if it was, he's on our side for now and we'll know when he isn't. Instead, I'm just going to do something that really should be done more often on day Ones everywhere:

++the phantom

For being the phantom.

Yeah. That felt good.

And then Day 2 she does another throw away? Now I'm no experienced player by any stretch of the imagination, but this just seems wrong. I would expect a more experienced player to not throw away their votes two days in a row.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nope, don't really buy the theory that Autume's a wolf.

Don't buy the theory that Mac's a wolf.

Definitely don't buy the theory that Steve is a wolf.

I, however, am the wolfiest wolf that ever howled at the moon, therefore:

++Rikae

Seriously, I really hope toMorrow we can focus a little attention into the dark corners of this village, instead of on the over-examined and probably innocent loudmouths - and I have a novel to finish, so tschüss.

Edit: x-ed with all posts from #682

[Rikae]

Tum, dear, it's kind of difficult to make an influential (that is, non-throwaway) vote in a village that is bandwagoning as much as this one has. You can make a throwaway vote or you can join the bandwagon, and I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon simply because it's there.

But I think you know that perfectly well, don't you? Nice try, though, wolfiepie.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Tum, dear, it's kind of difficult to make an influential (that is, non-throwaway) vote in a village that is bandwagoning as much as this one has. You can make a throwaway vote or you can join the bandwagon, and I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon simply because it's there.

But I think you know that perfectly well, don't you? Nice try, though, wolfiepie.

So why not vote for someone you find slightly suspicious?

[Inziladun]

I should have been in bed long ago. I wouldn't mind seeing Eönwë lynched at this point, since my top suspect admittedly wanted to save him Day1. And I really don't know why Boro would have said that about him being a "Neg 4" for no reason.

I haven't changed my suspicion of tum, but this could shed some light on her, and maybe on Nog as well.

++Eönwë