Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But really Phantoblin, you will not vote for those who vote you for representative? First of all you contradict yourself as you insist on being bad at heart - wouldn't lynching those who trust you be the "baddie move" then? (actually you should have to break that promise as a representative for me to trust you...) Secondly: if you are on the orc side isn't your task to get rid of the elves whoever they are - even if they try to do you lip-service by voting you as a representative?

I'd like to focus more on your first point. We all know tp to be a devilishly sly bugger when it comes to this game. What really has me worried is that there are two possibilities with his will-not-vote-for-people-who-vote-me-as-rep situation. First, he's really an orc who is just being plain old, arrogant phantom and wants the power and glory (which is probably the case whether he's orc or SoE ) of having been made almighty representative and is trying to find a way to subtly oust the SoE's.

Second, he's really an SoE and doing the whole double-, triple-, quadruple- bluffing.

Either way, it's his way of initiating chaos as that's what phantom does best. And yet for some reason, we all go along with it like the good little sheep he expects us to be. I personally feel like leaving him alone for a little while. That doesn't mean I'll drop him completely off my radar (that would just be plain idiotic), but I do not think we should dwell on the infinite possible plans that are brewing inside his head.

Originally Posted by Rune

btw I would happily be a representative my self. . . Power is nice.

I was just quickly skimming things when this jumped out at me. Something about it makes me uneasy about Rune.

I would also like to mention that all three of the votes that have been cast make me very uneasy. I would understand them a little more and probably be less leery of them were it not for the fact that the Day's last for 48 hours. Why are you all casting your votes now? Will you have no internet access from now until tomorrow at 9pm EST?

[satansaloser2005]

I'm here for the sake of clarification only. I'm at work, and shouldn't be posting at all, but I wanted to clear this up for my pie.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I would also like to mention that all three of the votes that have been cast make me very uneasy. I would understand them a little more and probably be less leery of them were it not for the fact that the Day's last for 48 hours. Why are you all casting your votes now? Will you have no internet access from now until tomorrow at 9pm EST?

No, dear, because the time to vote for representatives is only 24 hours. The first "half" of the Day is voting for reps, and the second "half" of the Day is the reps voting for who we shall lynch. Thus, we only have until tonight.


Also, glad to see that we stirred up discussion. I do so hate boring Day Ones.


I have to log off now, sorry. I'll be able to read if I'm careful but I really don't like being on the site at the office. I'll be back in....six or seven hours, I'd say, though perhaps not. Either way, behave while I'm gone, and keep being pedantic.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I would also like to mention that all three of the votes that have been cast make me very uneasy. I would understand them a little more and probably be less leery of them were it not for the fact that the Day's last for 48 hours. Why are you all casting your votes now? Will you have no internet access from now until tomorrow at 9pm EST?

We have to vote for our representatives today before 9 P.M. EST. Between that time and tomorrow 9 P.M. we discuss and tell the reps who to vote to lynch.

Legate, you're right - I didn't read your post. Sorry. I'll do that sometime today if I have time. I'm trying to juggle this game, my work, and my homework all at once. My work is fine, but this game and the homework is suffering miseably.

-- Folworc

X-posted with Sally.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Not. Happening. I don't particularly think Fea and Nienna want their game hijacked.

As of right now, I'll probably give my vote to anyone (besides Phantom) who promises to try and get either Sally or Lottie lynched, because they're both pretty clearly trying to hide behind 'oh it's Day 1 I can do whatever I like and it won't matter'.

I wouldn't put it that strongly, but it would be indeed easy for a SoE to make that exact move - vote phantom early on based on his phantomness. Easy excuse. I also found Lommy's idea interesting:

Originally Posted by Lommy

I don't honestly understand why anyone - innocent or guilty - would throw away their rep vote so carelessly for somebody whose alignment they have no idea of (probably). The fact that there were two of them makes me quite worried. It doesn't help at all that Sally is claiming to amuse the mod and Lottie said she's voting early because she won't be around later but she still made several posts after her vote. It's just utter stupidity. The only scenario that makes sense is that one of them is a wolf with phantom and uses his phantomness and excuse to make an easy rep vote for a fellow and the other girl is just using the opportunity to mess around for fun.

This far I'd be more inclined to find some fur in Sally. Just the way she seems to openly attach herself to phantom as an ally. Especially in the following:

Originally Posted by Sally

Phantom, darling, do right by me, okay?

And considering the following, a Sallywolf would be pretty safe with that strategy:

Originally Posted by phantom

Oh, and I also thought I'd mention that anyone that votes me for rep is completely safe for that day. No lie.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I think at least that it's ridiculous to make this into a disgusting politics game where you make parties like "you give me your vote, I won't lynch-vote you" - it's not silly but also dangerous: it becomes a war of clans where one's party matters more than their true alignment, which we definitely don't want in a werewolf game.

Lommy has a point here, I think. Still, it's more or less what's bound to happen, whether said aloud or not: a representative probably won't vote for the ones who elected him/her to power anyway, out of courtesy or just unconsciously, at least not unless there is really heavy evidence against one of the voters. Still, what a representative more or less instinctively ends up doing is entirely different from promising beforehand that "anyone who votes for me is safe".

Originally Posted by Lottie

No matter when I voted, there wouldn't have been any difference in how much there was to analyze.

Perhaps not - but from your own perspective one could think that you would find a good decision easier to make after a bit more time for considering it..

Originally Posted by Inzil

And actually, we aren't bound to voting anyone for rep, I don't think, even though it's a power we should exercise. If one doesn't have time to wait and examine everyone before voting though, I think not voting is the better option, as long as one has a very good excuse for not doing so.

This, actually, is a very good point. I hadn't realised that myself. Voting the wrong person for rep is loads more dangerous than refraining from voting.

Originally Posted by Lottie, underlining mine

Either he's working for the Orcish Folk or he's not, same as everyone else. He happens to be louder and less likely to be manipulated by the SoE. See, my thinking is it's about 25% chance he's evil normally, but for most people, I'd have to add between 5 to 10% chance of accidentally working for the SoE. TP does his own thing, not very influenced by manipulations - other than his promise not to vote for those he is representing, which doesn't bother me - as I am not a SoE, which lessens the chance of him voting for a true Orc. Since I don't have a chance to really look at people toDay, this is the least risky move I could make, in my mind.

Now, I think you go too far here. What you've got to remember is that the fact that he's trying really hard to establish some kind of cult around himself doesn't mean he merits it more than anyone else does. Oh, he's sharp and all that, but there are other sharp and independed-minded people around here too and I don't like how little credit they get just because they don't make such a show of themselves.

Originally Posted by Legate

But now let me sum up what I think of phantom's proposal, personally. From the above already you can see, phantom, that I am not so keen on supporting you straightaway. While the idea might be good if you are good, sorry, I mean evil; I am not too keen on voting you, mostly just for the sake of that I think there will be more people - possibly like sally and Loslote - who either for lack of time, lack of Day 1 imagination or even for SoE-ish hiding in bandwaggon reasons (as already Nerwen well noted, and I think it is a good possibility) - will give their vote to you, and given how the system works in this game (if I understood it correctly), that will give tp-representative's vote tremendous power, even if there are a few other Representatives, each with his pitiful one vote or something like that (and I know, it is obvious that you will enjoy using the quote "Poweeeer! Un-limited poweeeer!" once you get there). Again, I think it is safer for the SoE if the votes do not split too much here - if it becomes all deed only of one Phantom, then even if he were innocent (read: innocent of murdering Orcs, not of all other things), we get no real clues from the lynch aside from "the phantom did it right/wrong". So because of this, I think I will rather go for somebody else, to offer a decent competition.

A bit related to this: the rep voting is one of our few ways of looking for concrete patterns in people's behaviour, and if everyone votes for the same person - or even one of two or three - finding these patterns becomes infinitely more difficult.


EDIT: x-ed since Sally's last

[Folwren]

The following thought occured to me:

This whole representatives thing can be very revealing about who people are because from my point of view, there are only a few types of people who would try to get elected.

1. An elf or elf-friend, so that they could turn suspicion away from itself and its companions.

2. A loud humbug orc who only wants attention...and who thinks he might actually be able to do some good for our underground village.

3. The seer, so that he actually CAN do some good with his knowledge.

I think this because, being an ordinary person, it occurred to me that trying to get voted into a representatives place would put undue suspicion and attention on my humble person, therefore I'd jolly well better not try. If I were an elf, I might be more likely to attempt it. They have everything to lose, and everything to win, if you think about it, and who's going to suspect a bold stroke in broad wake-time?

The only thing that I think would induce me or another innocent into attempting to become a representative would be to gain power and attention and to actually think we could help the village by our intuition.

The seer on the other hand would be perfect to be in a representative's place. However, the blessed seer has the problem that if he is too open, the Elves will catch onto him and kill him during the sleep-time. Therefore, he cannot be open in his hints...in fact, he might not even be able to openly run for representative. But he still might try to get there.

So........that being said, I now see that it's rather weak. But at least it was a thought. I think it's worth considering when we look at the people vying for representative position.

Cross posted with M. Phantom.

[Folwren]

I'm writing a post about Greenie now. May be a while.

[Folwren]

Okay...so I WAS writing a post about Greenie, but then I lost it. *wry grin*

Should I start o'er?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Okay...so I WAS writing a post about Greenie, but then I lost it. *wry grin*

Should I start o'er?

I would personally love to read what you have to say about Greenie.

[Eönwë]

Just to tell you where I am:

I'm going to need to go soon, but I'm considering choosing Legate or Zil as rep. Possibly Lommy, if she can convince me, but that would be a bit too much of an anti-phantom move, which is just as bad as the original pro-phantom move at the beginning of the Day.


Still reading...

[Eönwë]

Though I have to admit that it's Boro that turned voting Lommy into a purely anti-phantom move. So maybe he's trying to make us not vote too anti-phantom (seems the general consensus these days, which makes it a bit of a bangwaggon) and vote him instead, who he portrays as the second best anti-phantomer. Or maybe I'm just reading reading Boro all wrong. I don't know if he'd be that obvious. But if I'm not, I definitely don't like what he's doing by trying to manipulate the Day (maybe even more than the phantom).

In fact, because of him, the anti-phantom bandwaggon now almost seems worse to me than the pro-phantom bandwaggon at the beginning. Or maybe he's just trying to make it seem that way.



And if both Boro and phantom are wolves...



Edit: missed words

[Boromir88]

Mmm, I've got a bit of a rushed decision here, as 6 is when I'm going to be away the rest of the night. I'm going to vote my rep now then...

++Wilwa for rep

I like her proposal and for that should be rewarded.

There Legate, now you know I will not be making Lommy a rep and you've got a few choices.

To respond to some recent posts than I gotta depart.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

And if both Boro and phantom are wolves...

That's probably the scariest thing I ever heard this far, not to say it would be impossible - would mean seeing Boro's behavior in a totally different light - but I hope I am not as paranoid yet to start considering it too much...

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Hm? I don't think it was so strong.

I think it was - just look at the start of it! And the vocabulary! Not going to repeat it here, darling

Originally Posted by Boromir88

There Legate, now you know I will not be making Lommy a rep and you've got a few choices.

Great. Meditate about it, I will. (score!!!)

EDIT: x-ed with a Boro

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boro

I meant it as a humorous, yet pretty honest statement. Phantom would probably be more frightened of Lommy than I could ever make him...and really the same goes for me! She isn't all sweet lil harmless penguin lover.

For some reason, this makes me happy.

++Greenie Grenadine Little Orc for Representative

Simply because we seem to be on the same wavelength. I hope Folwren is elected for rep too, though.

Good night, see you tomorrow with some serious business!

[wilwarin538]

Before I do anything else I'm going to make a vote count.

I'm letting you know this so no one else starts one, cause I hate putting all the work into it, and then coming back to see one there.

[wilwarin538]

Okee.

Sally -> Phantom
Lottie -> Phantom (2)
Rune -> Lommy
Greenie -> Nerwen
Nogrod -> Izzy
Mira -> Phantom (3)
Boro -> Wilwa
Lommy -> Greenie

So, so far our only rep is Phantom, and if he gets another vote I believe that means he gets 2 lynch votes (right??).

So nobody else vote him, or that would be annoying.

And I think if you see that your vote choice already has 2 votes, just pick someone else. The more reps the better.

x'ed with Eonwe and reworded last sentence for clarity

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right? Not to mention, most of the people throwing suspicion around right now are doing so based upon the early voting and reactions to it! If everyone followed your advice (and not voted), we'd be back at square one as far as suspicions!

Well, in a normal game, why not give a Day 1 vote before 95% of the players have posted? We're supposed to be electing people we think will vote for the SoE's, so doesn't it come to the same thing?

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

This is my first representative game, and it's very possible that my brain isn't totally understanding it, but from what I can see the best way to do it would be for us to not give anyone more than 2 votes, right? Cause once they have 2 votes they're a representative, and if they get more than they start gaining more power.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Anyway, my point. Phantom is a rep now, nobody else vote for him. These caves are small enough already, I'd rather not have his ego take up even more room.

Hear, hear!

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Wilwa (she turned up at last, yay!) and Nog are making sense. Also, whatever is the Emperor's cat? Legate?

Looks like it's my bedtime now, and since the deadline is 4 AM my time I won't wake up to vote then.. So I'll vote

[highlight++ Nerwen for rep[/highlight

Because she is independent-minded and clever and if she's innocent she can do a lot of good in that position - and if she isn't, a Nerwelf is, in general, such a sly case that forcing her into the spotlight wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I've thought about voting Nerwen, but I'd like to see more of her.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So how is it... tp has two votes (enough) and Lommy and Nerwen have one each?

I have nothing against those three ending up as representatives. Basically I have nothing against more or less ayone becoming a representative at this stage of the game: it would be interesting to learn more about everyone.

So for me it comes down to deciding whether to vote for someone I tend to trust a little, who is loud and enigmatic, who is very careful, who is hiding in the shadows...

I think you will take care enough loudmouths get to be elected so I'll start a new trend then.

[highlight++ Izzy for representative[/highlight

She is very good and I always have hard times reading her. I'd like to see her contribute more, already at this stage of the game and not only when the numbers have dwindled.

Hm. She's only made one post, so I'd have a problem voting Izzy right now.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

[highlight++phantom for rep[/highlight]

Ah, come on. Isn't there a game rule about not feeding the phantom's ego? And was no one else even in the running?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Vote me for rep...I'll vote to lynch phantom. No lie.

You do make a strong campaign!