Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Nogrod]

Heh, I just got your game in the most concrete form tp...

Originally Posted by phantom

*snicker*
I did that on purpose, laddie. Poking the beehive, so to speak, just to see what reactions I got (outrage or glossing over or ignoring etc).

You're like the advents of psychoanalysis who say that every motive in your life stems from the sexual trauma you have for the opposing sex parent of yours - and if the other denies or doesnt't believe your explanation - they say the theory also holds there will be a "defence" in you denying the obvious truth...

And everything here stands or falls with the personal believability of the analyst.

I mean really. You can't say of every suspicion on you that it was misconstructed - or if you have to admit it was well constructed - that you made it on purpose to check things... Or well, you obviously seem to be able to do that, but don't expect everyone to buy it forever.

Although I'd more like to talk about others now. Really.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am back, but I should warn you, I am totally spend and will soon collapse.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Isn't this the same as the 'two votes per Rep' suggestion? Trying to make a rule in terms of how you vote for your Representative? Because you would need to have one, for a single person to get that much sway. I don't like this idea, because it in no way forces that player with that much power, to work for the better good. Their only consequence would be what? Lynched the next Day for acting poorly with votes? But that would be further detriment to the Cave.

I do agree, that we should all be voting for who we think would do a good job; but who we think is an Orc first. Because an Elf could do a splendid job, but that is counterproductive.

I never suggested this as a rule that should be implemented, I was just sharing my thoughts about what scenario I find most desirable.
I am sorry if I did not make that clear.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nope

Now if I understand Shasta, Nerwen, and Foley's objection to those who voted phantom as a rep, instead of feigning information, it looks like they are feigning ignorance and are hiding behind random votes to look innocent. Eh, as silly as it is, I don't think there's evil intent there. I've already shared my opinion on those three votes, and one thing I will not stand for is to be mis-represented *glares at Rune*



I did not attack either of their votes. I said their votes actually looked innocent.

You said that their actions (including the votes) made them look innocent, but you completely trashed them for voting the phantom. Didn't you tell them that they had no backbone and such?

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Sally ate a rotten khup-khak. She is excused from participation for the rest of the day.

She should have eaten muuf-fäns instead.

Ok, so I quickly skimmed (it's nuts, my life has been so boring lately, and then today it was just one thing after another, so I can comment quickly now, and then I probably won't be on til an hour before DL, and than that's it, sorry!)

So phantom is being silly, I think he thinks he makes perfect sense, but he doesn't. Someone who votes later on in the Day may not have any more solid information than they do at the beginning, but they can have more of a hunch, which can make a difference (it's why we wait til the end of the day to vote, and not just throw our votes around right off the bat). Even after a few Days we still don't have 'solid information' on anyone we just have deaths, and than we make connections off that using hunches. It's almost always down to feeling, and you can't have a feel for anything at the start of Day 1. So the votes were bad, they should have waited til later, and we aren't being illogical for thinking so.

Uhm...what else? About the rep voting. Yes it would be very much more exciting if the voting went all over and people had varying amounts of power, but that's disorganised and can be so unpredictable, and makes it more likely for a SoE to end up with too much power. People can vote for whoever they want, I wasn't really putting it out there in hopes of making it a 'rule', I just thought it would make things more organised, I certainly won't suspect someone who decides to give a third vote to someone they trust.

Now about my vote, I have no idea. If the people who voted me in (Boro and Izzy right?) could like write my name in all caps and bold it (WILWA) like so, so that I can see it, and then say who they want to vote for, I'll take those suggestions into consideration and likely go for one of those, because I haven't been around enough to make much of an informed decision, unfortunately, and likely won't have the time too, and since there is going to be so few votes I don't want to make it random, so I'd rather go off their more informed opinions.

I'll try to be back soon.

x'ed with Noggins

[Nogrod]

Bah, well over midnight and I have an early morning call...

So I'm more or less uneasy with Nerwen and Boro. And tp.

But then again I do think we would be foolish to lynch them without better cases than "uneasiness" on D1. We have a host of potential submarines around which would probably be better ideas to try toDay.

Which doesn't mean allowing to phantom's campaign over the randomness of D1's. D1's can be unproductive or even totally uninformative - but the villains can be caught on them as well. This time it doesn't look like we have a good lead (by now - there are still hours to go though) but on some other D1's we do have them.

Of others, I'm a little less convinced of Shasta's goodness (even if I still keep him in my more probably innocent than not -category) and little less bothered about Legate.

Mira I think was clearly someone who didn't read the thread - and as such not someone I would vote for a representative (another promise here) - and where Nerwen's attack on her looks like reeally bad.

Lottie looks first like more or less going by any winds present and then later on as opportunistic - in between the sense she makes.

Sally I think goes to the 50-50 category being just the toying herself with no role or using the "role" of Silly-Sally to her advantage in a bold manner. Might go either way.

I see what you Lommy say about Foley but I like her guts and would like to see more from her.

One of the few I tend to trust a bit are Wilwa (she has fooled me before) and surprise-surprise, Rune (I'm kind of surprised to catch myself saying that!).

I'm a bit torn with Izzy: she feels like she is a bit defensive being a representative whose task it would be to catch elves but then again she seems to speak sense when she speaks of others...

[Eönwë]

Well, I had a nice long post planned, but it seems to have disappeared. These are the only quotes I hadn't copy-and-pasted into it yet:

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Isn't this the same as the 'two votes per Rep' suggestion? Trying to make a rule in terms of how you vote for your Representative? Because you would need to have one, for a single person to get that much sway. I don't like this idea, because it in no way forces that player with that much power, to work for the better good. Their only consequence would be what? Lynched the next Day for acting poorly with votes? But that would be further detriment to the Cave.

Not really, it just sounds like he wants a bit of excitement as opposed to boring, planned out rules for voting each Day. Basically, for everyone to vote what they want without having to think of tactics. Which would certainly make this game far more interesting (whether or not it decreases our chances of winning).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now this looks a bit odd indeed. Why to run on defence of Boro on such a minor point? I mean the wolves oftentimes feel the threats to be more major than they are (everyone who has been a wolf knows that) and thence they feel the need to defend themselves or their friends in situations where no specific “defence” is needed (see the “confused” smilie there).

Now this is quite a good point.

Originally Posted by Loslote

As for the 'splitting up votes' idea of Vanilwuffin's and Nog's, I think it's a good idea, especially for the earlier Days. Later on, of course, it'd make sense to give more power to someone who who genuniely trust, as opposed to voting for someone else simply because the person you wanted to represent you already had xyr quota of votes for the Day.

But then, if they weren't evil, they'd just get Night-killed.

I didn't want to mention it, but if we do that then it's pretty obvious that if they're not evil they'll get Night-killed. Unless the Elves want to confuse us by not doing so.

Also, I'm not sure if the second "who" was meant to be a "we", but if it was, I just think that it will be very unlikely for us as a whole to reach a consensus on who is trustworthy (That's the whole point of having more than representative), and anyway, as I just said, they'd get quickly picked off by the wolves.

Originally Posted by the phantom

they and Mira are the only villagers that I know for a fact have voted for a true orc and not a SoE.

Isn't the Undecided Orc still a true orc even if he works for the elves? Just saying.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Oh come on, you walked straight into a point I made earlier- the fact that other votes have merely been, as you stated, a reaction or counter to the first votes! Basically, you're basing your actions upon something that you say shouldn't have happened in the first place, which means that had everyone followed your advice and not jumped the gun, you wouldn't have had any reason to vote later yourself, thus proving me correct when it comes to how incredibly flimsy our day 1 rep voting is going to be.

Something always happens on Day 1. It doesn't have to be two people voting within the first 20 posts on Day 1. And as you can see, that's kept the attention on them the whole Day (and you too, but I'm sure you enjoy that).


edit: x-ed since my last post.

[the phantom]

Just fyi, when it comes to my vote, my only concern is not lynching the Seer. Yeah sure, it'd be nice to hit a SoE, but my primary guiding emotion for my vote here is fear of it trashing our chances via killing our only gifted.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kath

That said in RL werewolf she's evil when acting this way.

If you're talking about the game I think you're talking about, I became grumpy because I didn't have anything else to say and wanted to seem helpful.

Originally Posted by Kath

Not sure what the Reps want from those of us without the power to vote.

For future reference: (preferably reasoned) suggestions of lynch candidates. Criticism towards our own thinking and preliminary choices.

Now wondering whether to give two or three votes to Lottie and whether the last one goes to Celuien or somebody else (phantom?)...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If you're talking about the game I think you're talking about, I became grumpy because I didn't have anything else to say and wanted to seem helpful.

And here I thought it was because I, Feanordo, and dear old Nordog were stealing the lime light with our big pointy teef.

Quick edit- this is referencing a game from June and has nothing to do with anybody's roles now.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Fea

And here I thought it was because I, Feanordo, and dear old Nordog were stealing the lime light with our big pointy teef.

Well also because you two didn't concentrate even though it was the cool game since I got to be wolves with Rikae and Mac!

*quits talking about that game*

Better vote now since Greenie's coming over to use the computer.

++all three votes for Lottie++

A bit less of a shot in the dark than most other options.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Izzy

If people were unable to get information from other players in regards to their alignment, then what exactly is the point of having a Day phase?

Precisely! Izzy 4 prez.

Originally Posted by Phantom

I'm not telling you to disregard what people say! By all means, try to gain a feel for people. I'm certainly doing it. I'm simply saying don't criticize others for not voting in the same manner as you on a day when it doesn't really make a difference.

Doesn't make a difference in your opinion, which you seem to be confusing with fact (I don't really know why this surprises me). If we weren't meant to take Day 1 seriously then there wouldn't be a Day 1.

Originally Posted by Phantom

See? You used to agree with me about this sort of thing.

Yes, I used to think Day 1 was pointless. I don't anymore. What's your point?

TO IZZY:

If you care to take your humble constituent's opinion into account, I'd like to see Sally lynched today.

Sincerely,

Scavenger Shasta

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, I am back, but I am actually totally exhausted and my toDay didn't go as planned at all, I had only time to check the thread once during the day and not even time to post, and even now I do not feel like having anything clever to add, because most of the thread as I read it sort of merged into one confusing mess.

My thoughts which I can contribute right now are sort of random, whatever somehow caught up my attention, or what sticks out of the general mess. Firstly, even though phantom may be behaving oddly, I still am not okay with the idea to get him straightaway lynched. I think we may learn far more from his actions later, or at least I would still like to try it. Secondly, I really like Eönwë's posts. He says things I mostly really agree with. Thirdly, I am glad Kath is back. Fourthly, as for the ideas of lynching Mira, it also does not seem like a good idea to me, her vote was rather random to be Elf-y, I think - I see it no reason to vote her. Fifthly and lastly, if you asked me about possible Elves, I am generally quite clueless about many people - there's been a lot of back and forth in the thread and generally I had little time to process it very well. If I were to say somebody, I would say either somebody of the still curious pair Lottie-sally the initial phantomvoters (theoretically - possibly - even with tp himself, thinking of that; but like I said, I would still prefer to see more of him, it's nothing concrete), and then Rune with his original possible buttering-up as I said earlier, and now sort of "backed away" attitude (although might be just because he is not in the center of things), or Glirdan with the total under the radar behavior. If I was a rep, I would possibly vote the last one, but not sure.

Okay, as usually I ended up saying perhaps at least something, still, I am mostly tired now and not able to concentrate now anymore. So, good Night, folks... and Reps, vote well...

EDIT: x-ed since Folwren

[the phantom]

Who all is a rep, and how many of you are interested in lynching Boro at all?

Lommy- I disagree with the thoughts that led to your vote, but I am at least pleased that out of the S-L-P triangle you chose the corner that you did. It's the most logical from my perspective, though my reasoning would obviously be different than yours.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Who all is a rep, and how many of you are interested in lynching Boro at all?

Lommy- I disagree with the thoughts that led to your vote, but I am at least pleased that out of the S-L-P triangle you chose the corner that you did. It's the most logical from my perspective, though my reasoning would obviously be different than yours.

Hmmn. I believe I know what that reasoning is (if sincere). Now I have to work out how well you'd be able to second-guess me...

I would, at the moment, consider lynching Boro or one of your supporters. No, not because wanting to elect you is inherently suspicious (it is, but but that's beside the point), but because all three have in different ways actually acted quite suspiciously in the course of it.

Originally Posted by Legate

Firstly, even though phantom may be behaving oddly, I still am not okay with the idea to get him straightaway lynched. I think we may learn far more from his actions later, or at least I would still like to try it. Secondly, I really like Eönwë's posts. He says things I mostly really agree with.

Ummm. These comments seem a bit... random. Legate, at this stage there doesn't seem much of a move to lynch the phantom, and if you're talking about Steve's last post it doesn't make much sense at all (due to tiredness, it seems).

EDIT:X'd with Xed.

[the phantom]

Okay, been doing a bit of skimming, and I'm quite certain that today we should NOT lynch-

Phantom
Rune
Sally
Izzy

I wouldn't cry if we lynch one of these-

Boro
Glirdan

I reserve the right to completely flip-flop on all of these tomorrow.

[Nerwen]

Arrrgh. My internet is showing signs of imminent death. So much as I'd like to chew the fat of who-knows-what-creature with my fellow politigoblins, I'm going to have to vote now.

++Boro for the lynch
++Sally for the lynch.

EDIT:X'd since my last post.

[A Little Green]

Ouch. I'm here, I skimmed the thread through, had no time to read properly (it's currently 2 AM, my alarm clock goes off in five hours in another part of town and I have a full day of work ahead..) I'm really sorry for this mess, I was meant to have time on the computer during the day but my internet totally failed. + I believe I did say I was going to have a busy day and participate only crappily so I wonder why I was elected to be a rep.. I'll do my best though.

From what I've seen, I'm inclined to think that Lommy, Shasta, Rune, Foley and Nerwen look pretty innocentish. I'm somewhat uncomfortable with phantom and Lottie, and I'll be somewhat surprised if Sally is not an elf.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Who all is a rep, and how many of you are interested in lynching Boro at all?

I'm a rep and I'm not that enthusiastic about lynching Boro - if not that enthusiastic about saving him, either. I have a hard time trying to read him, so I really can't judge.

Gah. I really need to get some sleep now, again so sorry for toDay! I promise to make a better effort toMorrow, if I have internet that is and if I'm still alive.

++ Sally

I hope I'm right. I guess I am.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Who all is a rep, and how many of you are interested in lynching Boro at all?

Well, Boro has been unsettling to me... more of a gut feeling than anything else. I wouldn't mind voting for him.

I have no real read on Glirdy.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I hope all these votes are counting. I think you're supposed to vote like this -

++YourVoteHere++

in red.

[Celuien]

Arrr, back at last after running around like a chicken with its head cut off, or perhaps cutting off chickens' heads?

I'll be back in a bit after catching up.

[Celuien]

As time is fairly short, I won't be able to put a lot of detail into explanations.

I really don't see tp as suspicious today. The worst I think he can be accused of is related to the "vote for me" gambit, which at least stirred up some discussion. So I won't be voting for him unless something drastic happens to change my mind in the next couple of hours.

Likewise, the attack on the early voters for him seems a little silly to me... I've always been in the day 1s are annoying (etc etc) camp, and had I been around before all the controversy started, was thinking of doing the same thing just because tp is tp and it would have amused me. That makes it hard for me to suspect sally and lottie on the mere basis of early phantom voting.

And no, Noggie and Lommie, I'm not playing a phorc phiddle... but I do find it fun to be in-role as an orc. *throws disgusting and probably questionably procured items in a bubbling cauldron of smelly stew* If suspicion of me is only based on being in role, that's interesting, and will place my eye in the direction of said suspectors.

Izzy, Eonwe and Wilworc seem genuine.

Something is bothering me about Boro in his discussion with Mira.

As for the rest, I really can't tell one way or another.