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Old 10-29-2010, 03:02 PM   #1
Galadriel55
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I agree about what you said about Belleriand. But still, elves were the top civilization of the time, even if they were outnumbered by other races. They sort of held the wisdom of the Valar.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:45 AM   #2
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Posted by Galadriel55:
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I am not enforcing my viewpoint, this is just my opinion. You could think differently.
Oh, be not afraid, I will do so!
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'Not in Middle-earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farwell!'
That is exactly what Galadriel said to Fangorn at the parting. Since she herself is already on her way to Valinor, it seems that she does not at all believe that Ents would one day come to Valinor.

In my opinion the time Galadriel refers to, is Arda healed – the one think that Elves could hope for when their long lives ended finally with the end of Arda marred in Dagor Dagorath.

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Old 11-01-2010, 07:54 AM   #3
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Tolkien also noted...

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But I think in Vol. II pp. 80-81 it is plain that there would be for Ents no re-union in 'history' - but the Ents and their wives being rational creatures would find some 'earthly paradise' until the end of this world: beyond which the wisdom neither of Elves nor Ents could see. Though maybe they shared the hope of Aragorn that they were 'not bound for ever to the circles of the world and beyond them is more than memory'...'

JRRT, Letter 338
Aman had been removed from the World, and I think the Ents were left to find somewhere within Middle-earth until the End.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:00 AM   #4
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I believe Findegil's right. Note that Tasirinan (=Nan-tathren) was in Beleriand, not Valinor.

The song about the Ents and Entwives in The Lord of the Rings does perhaps hint at them going to Valinor ("together we will take the road that leads into the west"), however if so I think that's meant to be wishful thinking. I don't have the books with me right now, but from memory, doesn't Treebeard himself regard it as a bit of Elven whimsy, rather than a prophecy?

EDIT:X'd with Galin.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:36 PM   #5
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"the time Galadriel refers to, is Arda healed "
It is possible, Findegil. After all, many things are supposed to reunite when Arda will be remade (for example, the Silmarils). However, I've always thought that the healing of Arda is a process pretty much similar to fixing, let's say, a toy car. You take it apart, you clean all the little pieces and take out all the dirt that got stuck in it, but when you put it back together, it functions totally differently than it did before. I don't ean better - literally differently. What would the healing of Arda look like? I don't think that even the roles of different rces are going to remain the same.
"doesn't Treebeard himself regard it as a bit of Elven whimsy, rather than a prophecy" but don't elven profecies, even whimsies, eventually prove to be true?
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:57 PM   #6
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Well, ents or entwives could tie themselves together into rafts and just float to Valinor. They would be their own flotation devices, as well as masts. They could get the dogwoods to paddle.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
"the time Galadriel refers to, is Arda healed "
It is possible, Findegil. After all, many things are supposed to reunite when Arda will be remade (for example, the Silmarils). However, I've always thought that the healing of Arda is a process pretty much similar to fixing, let's say, a toy car. You take it apart, you clean all the little pieces and take out all the dirt that got stuck in it, but when you put it back together, it functions totally differently than it did before. I don't ean better - literally differently. What would the healing of Arda look like? I don't think that even the roles of different rces are going to remain the same.
Sorry if this sounds rude, Galadriel55, but I honestly don't understand what this has to do with the question.

And it's not just "possible"– I think it can only mean that, or else a roundabout way of saying "never": Galadriel is talking about meeting Treebread in a place which had been destroyed long ago.

By the way–
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You take it apart, you clean all the little pieces and take out all the dirt that got stuck in it, but when you put it back together, it functions totally differently than it did before.
I hate to break this to you, but that's not what's supposed to happen when you fix a toy car.

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"doesn't Treebeard himself regard it as a bit of Elven whimsy, rather than a prophecy" but don't elven profecies, even whimsies, eventually prove to be true?
Again sorry, but you're begging the question here. I'm not sure it is a prophecy in the first place, and if it is I'm not sure it refers to Valinor anyway.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:16 PM   #8
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The car was a bad example. I'll try another one. Imagine you're making a puzzle - actually making it, not just solving it. When you put in together, tho, you don't like the way a certain piece looks. To change it, however, you need to change the surrounding pieces as well. The result is that when the new puzzle is put together, it looks totally different without the bad piece.
When Sauron was destroyed, the last of the "Old World" had to leave ME, because the reoval of Sauron changed the world....and that makes the entire picture look different, not only that one piece of the puzzle......
Is this explanation better?

It is also possible that the ents' souls returned to Valinor. The souls - spirits? - of Elves go to Mandos, so why can't ents? They are living creatures just the same. That means that they'd have the perfect opportunity to reunite with the entwives. Maybe it's not specifically in Mandos, but somewhere in Aman. Perhaps Yavanna will make her own place to keep the souls of her creatures.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:44 PM   #9
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It is also possible that the ents' souls returned to Valinor. The souls - spirits? - of Elves go to Mandos, so why can't ents? They are living creatures just the same. That means that they'd have the perfect opportunity to reunite with the entwives. Maybe it's not specifically in Mandos, but somewhere in Aman. Perhaps Yavanna will make her own place to keep the souls of her creatures.
They aren't living creatures just the same. Souls are only confirmed for the Eruhini--Elves and Men. It's always seemed to me that the Valar-created speakers are fundamentally different in that respect. We get the most information for Dwarves--Durin is reincarnated in one of his children--but even that is shrouded in mystery. I don't think you can assume anything, even the existence of souls, in an Ent or a Dwarf or an Eagle. They may be sentient, but they lack the theme of Iluvatar which sets Elves and Men apart from the rest of creation.

That isn't to say that your idea couldn't happen, but it's mere speculation and the little evidence we have seems to be against it. It'd make for a wicked fan fic, though.
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