How did the numenorians and dwarves craft items of magical properties? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 11-19-2010, 10:02 PM

Where the Númenóreans were concerned, I would think any "magic" imbued into their weapons was a less potent version of that the Elves were capable of. That would be in keeping with the general properties of the Dúnedain, being basically the most "elvish' among Men, and coming as close to mimicking elvish gifts as Men could.

As for the Dwarves, it seems the instances of their crafting magical artifacts mostly seem to do with stone, the side-door of Erebor which only became accessible at a certain time of the year, and the Doors of Durin at the Moria West-gate specifically. Perhaps that can only be explained by a shrugging note that they do have quite an affinity for stone, and maybe from Aulë their maker they had knowledge of some secret techniques unknown to other races.

Puddleglum · 11-20-2010, 01:29 AM

Did you have any specific Numenorean "magic" in mind? I'm not thinking of what that would be.

Generally, tho, I would say that in Tolkien's world, most things "called" magic are generally just the results of an art (or what we might call technology) which other peoples lack and don't understand.

Thus, for example, the Palatiri were no more "magic" than, say, a cell phone. Both allow communication over long distance with no visible means of words or thought passing. The difference is that we (21'st century mankind) understand how a cell phone works but we (and the 3rd age men) don't understand how the Palantiri work. Of course, Palantiri were made by elves, not Numenoreans.

Dwarven "magic" may have been similar. They understood stone well enough to have developed a way (which men never learned or understood) of making doors unseeable. Similarly, "Moon Letters" sound like just another kind of invisible writing (like kids writing in lemon juice which is unreadable until heated). Granted "WE" don't know how to make letters that are only visible in moonlight, but that doesn't mean such a discovery couldn't be made.

11-19-2010, 10:02 PM	#1
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	Where the Númenóreans were concerned, I would think any "magic" imbued into their weapons was a less potent version of that the Elves were capable of. That would be in keeping with the general properties of the Dúnedain, being basically the most "elvish' among Men, and coming as close to mimicking elvish gifts as Men could. As for the Dwarves, it seems the instances of their crafting magical artifacts mostly seem to do with stone, the side-door of Erebor which only became accessible at a certain time of the year, and the Doors of Durin at the Moria West-gate specifically. Perhaps that can only be explained by a shrugging note that they do have quite an affinity for stone, and maybe from Aulë their maker they had knowledge of some secret techniques unknown to other races. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

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11-20-2010, 01:29 AM	#2
Puddleglum Wight Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 145	Did you have any specific Numenorean "magic" in mind? I'm not thinking of what that would be. Generally, tho, I would say that in Tolkien's world, most things "called" magic are generally just the results of an art (or what we might call technology) which other peoples lack and don't understand. Thus, for example, the Palatiri were no more "magic" than, say, a cell phone. Both allow communication over long distance with no visible means of words or thought passing. The difference is that we (21'st century mankind) understand how a cell phone works but we (and the 3rd age men) don't understand how the Palantiri work. Of course, Palantiri were made by elves, not Numenoreans. Dwarven "magic" may have been similar. They understood stone well enough to have developed a way (which men never learned or understood) of making doors unseeable. Similarly, "Moon Letters" sound like just another kind of invisible writing (like kids writing in lemon juice which is unreadable until heated). Granted "WE" don't know how to make letters that are only visible in moonlight, but that doesn't mean such a discovery couldn't be made.