A Few Questions About Elrond and Elros

[Galin]

For myself, I don't recall any notable specifics for the time between the capture of Elrond and Elros and the end of the War of Wrath. If so, the implication is perhaps simply that the sons remained with Maedros and Maglor until sometime after the War.

According to a statement from The Lord of the Rings, Elrond reveals this much at one point: 'It recalled to me the glory of the Elder Days and the hosts of Beleriand, so many great princes and captains were assembled. And yet not so many, not so fair, as when Thangorodrim was broken, and...'

Hmm


Even letter 211 (1958), describing how Elros and Elrond were found, was possibly abandoned, as JRRT ultimately abandoned the detail that Elrond seemingly meant *Elf of the Cave, for instance. Tolkien might have kept the details found in this letter, but as the meaning of the name arguably reflects the story, it's a bit of a question mark to my mind.

The status of Maglor is a bit questionable too, as Tolkien would (at least twice) imagine that Maglor perished. And as I read the 'evidence' that I'm aware of, the latest version on paper (anyway) concerning Maglor's fate has him casting himself into the Sea (see the later Lay of Leithian in The Lays of Beleriand, where the form of the name is Maelor however).

That all said, Tolkien never got around to any updated long prose version of Orthad en-El *Raising of the Star (for this title see Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed), and perhaps such a version might have given readers more here.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galin

(for this title see Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed), and perhaps such a version might have given readers more here.

I would definitely buy and hoard all the Tolkien books I could find, but a) My parents will kill me if they see me reading Tolkien again, during my last school year and b) None of the HoME books are available where I come from

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Galin

(...) Even letter 211 (1958), describing how Elros and Elrond were found, was possibly abandoned, as JRRT ultimately abandoned the detail that Elrond seemingly meant *Elf of the Cave, for instance. Tolkien might have kept the details found in this letter, but as the meaning of the name arguably reflects the story, it's a bit of a question mark to my mind.

Hmm, according to the TYs, Elros and Elrond are born in FA 532 and the Havens of Sirion are destroyed 6 years later, in 538, and: 'sons of Earendil taken captive, but are fostered with care by Maidros.'

In the letter:

'Elrond and Elros, children of Earendil (sea-lover) and Elwing (Elf-foam), were so called, because they were carried off by the sons of Feanor, in the last act of the fued between the high-elven houses of the Noldorin princes concerning the Silmarils; the Silmaril rescued from Morgoth by Beren and Luthien, and given to King Thingol Luthien's father, had descended to Elwing dtr. of Dior, son of Luthien. The infants were not slain, but left like 'babes in the wood', in a cave with a fall of water over the entrance. There they were found: Elrond within the cave, and Elros dabbling in the water.'

Do people agree that the suggestion here is that the 'infants' were left here by the sons of Feanor just after they were carried off, to be found again by someone, and in this scenario would not have been fostered?

Granted, again the name Elrond does not seem to have retained this seeming meaning *Elf of the cave (note Elwing is here 'Elf-foam'), possibly denying this conception, but anyway there doesn't seem to be any fostering going on here.

[Formendacil]

In many respects this is an unanswerable question. If you have The Silmarillion, you already "know" about as much as anyone else does about what happened in Middle-earth between the sack of the Havens and the end of the War of Wrath.

And this isn't just an uncertain ground because Tolkien never revisited this part of the Silmarillion after he finished The Lord of the Rings--which is case with the Tale of the Nauglamír--it's a part of the story that he never really addressed at all, except in the outline-esque early 1920s "Qenta Noldorinwa." Aside from that, the only references to what happened in Middle-earth during those years are only to be found in scattered notes and outlines (such as the Tale of the Years mentioned by Galin).

Basically, the final chapter of the "Quenta Silmarillion" section of The Silmarillion contains as good a reconstruction of what happened as any--with added bonus that it was put together by his son and editor.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Galin

Granted, again the name Elrond does not seem to have retained this seeming meaning *Elf of the cave (note Elwing is here 'Elf-foam'), possibly denying this conception, but anyway there doesn't seem to be any fostering going on here.

I always thought that "Elrond" means Roof-of-Stars or something similar to that, and "Elwing" to be Star-foam

[Galin]

Yes Elrond did not mean *Elf of the Cave according to later text (later than this letter). Sometimes I use 'seem' even though I'm really more sure than this might indicate. Anyway, I'm interested in the following question here (concerning the letter I quoted above):

Do people agree that the suggestion in the letter is that the 'infants' were left by the sons of Feanor just after they were carried off, to be found again by someone, and in this scenario would not have been fostered?

That's how I read it, but I've already stumbled across an interpretation that the two were left at the time when Maedros and Maglor finally stole the Silmarils... which seems off to me, despite 'last act' above.