Currency in Aman and Arda?

[Galadriel55]

I think that Khamul promised Maggot gold, he meant gold coins, that being the highest coin type in value. As little as the Nazguls know about the Shire, they should know what to scare/tempt the hobbits with; they aren't that stupid. A chunk of gold would be as useful to Maggot as a sausage to a vegeterian.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I think that Khamul promised Maggot gold, he meant gold coins, that being the highest coin type in value. As little as the Nazguls know about the Shire, they should know what to scare/tempt the hobbits with; they aren't that stupid. A chunk of gold would be as useful to Maggot as a sausage to a vegeterian.

Why? Gold is gold. A coin as a coin is only a representative object as concerns its issuer, usually a government. The Hobbits weren't bound to any particular type of coinage, they only used coins because they were convenient. I don't think Maggot would have turned down a gold bar. I wouldn't!

[Galadriel55]

You wouldn't, and neither would I, but neither of us is Maggot. What use would he see in a bar of gold? It's like the Gaffer said, "cabbages and potatoes are better". They're both more down-to-earth-ish, and perhaps more realistic when it comes to the true value of things, not the value that others give them. What could you do with gold? It's an equivalent of money, but what else? Jewelry's nice, I suppose, but its not something that we really need that much. Yes, I said that gold=money, but only because people gave it this value. In reality, it is not as useful as other metals. Maggot is the kind of person that can see beyond the yellow shiny stuff. What would he do with that bar of gold? Fertilize his mushrooms with it?
He could use a few coins, though, since they are a convinient way to trade, as you said. He could get some real fertilizer with those! Gold bars aren't very convenient to trade with, unless you want a dozen wagons of manure at once...

When Legolas and Gimli talk about the caves of Aglarond, they say something about giving gold. Do you think that they meant oney or golden bars or either? Or simply the value of gold in any material/way of payment?

PS: if Maggot would not accept gold in return for information about his..."friend", he probably wouldn't have accepted anything, so I don't blae Khamul for not bribing properly.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Why? Gold is gold. A coin as a coin is only a representative object as concerns its issuer, usually a government. The Hobbits weren't bound to any particular type of coinage, they only used coins because they were convenient. I don't think Maggot would have turned down a gold bar. I wouldn't!

Well, to put it in perspective, Butterbur offered Merry 30 silver pennies in compensation for his lost ponies. If a gold coin is of value about, say, 20 silver pennies (it may have been more), then the value of a gold coin is the value of several modes of transportation - in our society maybe that is several hundred or thousand dollars in equivalent value.

So, if the Nazgul pays with a gold ingot (enough to make several hundred or more gold coins), what is Maggot going to do with it? Walk into the nearest pub, buy a beer (for a few coppers) and ask for change ?!?!?!? He can't do much of ANYTHING with it until he finds someone with enough loose change to convert it - and with a desire to have their very own gold ingot (which THEY can't do much with).

Maybe Gondor would have a banking system able to handle/convert it. I expect the Dwarves could have converted it. But I don't see that the Shire was set up to convert something of that value.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Indeed, I'm with G55 and Puddleglum about this one - Khamul's words really sound like the basic way in which the villains of old in 19th-century books offer a bribe. The point is that Khamul is not saying "I will give you 500 gold pieces if you tell me about Baggins", but he is simply saying "gold", leaving it open for Maggot to say the actual price. It is like "here, I am giving you an offer, and you can see for yourself how generous I am". Of course, Khamul's only mistake was indeed that he bumped into a rather incorruptible person, and the whole race, for that matter...

On the other hand, I agree with Inzil about the Mordor part - I don't think that Sauron would have any reason to use currency "inside" Mordor, and no reason to make his own coins. Nobody will buy anything from anybody inside Mordor, you either have slaves, or you are a boss, but you get everything you ought for your work by the system which divides stuff among people according to Sauron's, and only his, plans. It's a classic centrally controlled society, if you can even call it a society in the proper sense.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

On the other hand, I agree with Inzil about the Mordor part - I don't think that Sauron would have any reason to use currency "inside" Mordor, and no reason to make his own coins. Nobody will buy anything from anybody inside Mordor, you either have slaves, or you are a boss, but you get everything you ought for your work by the system which divides stuff among people according to Sauron's, and only his, plans. It's a classic centrally controlled society, if you can even call it a society in the proper sense.

I have heard dragons worked for union scale.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I have heard dragons worked for union scale.

Oh, Morth...

For myself, I always figured that there was some kind of "currency" among all the different races of ME, not a unified system, but one that worked among themselves and those with which they did any kind of trade. That Tolkien gave no details of these systems is no surprise to me, since he had an obvious emphasis on culture rather than commerce. But there is plenty of evidence that such systems existed, in the mentions of things like coins, payment, etc. I can't see Sauron feeling any need to have a currency of his own; he didn't pay his slaves, and for things like the bribes offered to Maggot, he probably had caches (no doubt stolen) of the various things needed to do business in the regions where he wanted to "do business."

In Aman, since the three groups of Elves have realms with kings, they probably have established some way of doing trade among themselves based on whatever means they might have established prior to the Great Journey. Aman may be the Blessed Realm, but it is not a perfect paradise, nor are the Elves themselves a perfect people. But that's my personal take on things.