Melodrama in Middle-earth

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Now, does anyone else find this a bit strange? That this event should be described in such grave terms? I get it: it's sad when a child leaves her mother never to return. But was there really no grief greater than this in history?

It's not just a matter of a child leaving the home. You have to understand the essence of what "The Gift of the One to Men" is.

Eru created the universe (Ea) and the Valar/Maier entered into it. There to remain AS LONG AS EA ENDURED.
The Eldar, Eru created so that they also would remain within Ea AS LONG AS EA ENDURED. Their bodies may be destroyed (and their spirits go to Mandos) but the Valar could rebuild the body and rehouse the spirit so that fellowship was only interupted.

But the essential gift to Men (Atani) was that they would leave the universe (Ea), NEVER TO RETURN.

For Melian, it meant that she would NEVER see Luthien again as long as the universe lasted!
It's that *NEVER AS LONG AS EA LASTS* that makes the grief so great.

And it is made more poignant by the fact that Melian had always EXPECTED that she and Luthien would HAVE fellowship, not just for a few years (like Atani) - but that their fellowship would LAST - - AS LONG AS EA ENDURES.

From the expectation of Universe-Enduring Fellowship, to the reality of Universe-Enduring Separation.
The closest I can think of in our experience would be for a young newlywed, terribly in love with their spouse, to have that spouse unexpectedly and tragically die on their honeymoon. No more lifetime of growing and loving together - all ripped away with no hope of remedy.

That is the same grief that Elrond later experienced when Arwen chose mortality.

The flip-side, however, was that Beren and Luthien TOGETHER passed beyond Ea. And, similarly, Aragorn and Arwen TOGETHER passed beyond Ea. And there, as Aragorn told Arwen would be (for them) MORE THAN MEMORY.

[Galadriel55]

Originally death was meant to be a relief from "earthly pains and troubles". Elves should really be jealous of Men, in my opinion. But Morgoth convinced many men that death is bad and in their curse - basically turned it all around. I don't think that the Valar ever thought that some elves will choose to die, especially after Morgoth's lies about that subject. I won't even speculate on what Eru thought of that matter.

"For Melian, it meant that she would NEVER see Luthien again as long as the universe lasted! That is the same grief that Elrond later experienced when Arwen chose mortality."

Yes, but Elrond's situation is less severe, because a) he predicted this outcome, and b) he could take cofort in a similar story that happened before. I think that it plays a big part that Luthien was THE FIRST to choose this. And yes, I totally agree that Melian's loss is heavier than those of men, since she won't see Luthien until the world ends.
I won't call it melodrama, but rather reality like it is.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Yes, but Elrond's situation is less severe, because a) he predicted this outcome, and b) he could take comfort in a similar story that happened before.

That's a good point, Galadriel55, I hadn't thought of that. Though it is also <possible> the foresight worked more to mitigate the initial emotional shock, rather than the underlying or continuing grief of loss.

There is one other tidbit I just ran across again from LOTR/ToTK "Many Partings", after the funeral of Theoden and official betrothal of Faramir & Eowen

Arwen ... said farewell to her brethern. None saw her last meeting with Elrond her father, for they went up into the hills and there spoke long together, and bitter was their parting that should endure beyond the ends of the world.

That "beyond the ends of the world" caught my eye and, on considering, brought back to mind something I had forgotten. Namely, that:

• While Atani had a promise (tho often not really believed or understood) that they would depart Ea and go beyond "the circles of the world" (ie, to where Eru still dwealt).
• The Eldar had NO SUCH PROMISE. All they knew was that "Elves die not till the world dies" (Sil, chp 1). They had no promise for what would happen after that.

Finrod (in the Athrabeth in HoME vol 10) put it this way

The end will come. That we all know. And then we must die; we must perish utterly, it seems, for we belong to Arda., Beyond THE DAY ... we have no knowledge. And no one speaks to us of hope.

So, while men may have a hope of an afterlife (as it is called now), Melian and Elrond had a basis for seeing the loss as absolutely ETERNAL - never to see Luthien/Arwen again even after the end of Arda.

Thus "A parting that should endure beyond the ends of the world."

For me, while elevating the poignancy of the episode, this also highlights Elrond's nobility and wisdom: that even with this terrible loss before and around him (with Aragorn as the proximate cause) he continued to love and aid and support Aragorn - and delivered, of free-will, Arwen's hand to Aragorn in marriage sealing and afirmming his loss.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Thanks for the replies, and it seems to me that I missed this significance due to my belief that there is no afterlife. Of course you will never see her again, I automatically think. But for Melian, that wasn't so. Good points.

[Morthoron]

Would melodrama in Middle-earth be measured on an angstrom scale?

Sorry, too much coffee this morning.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Would melodrama in Middle-earth be measured on an angstrom scale?

Sorry, too much coffee this morning.

Sounds more like some pipeweed mellowdrama to me, Morth.