Tolkien's Importance to History - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Laurelin the Younger · 01-23-2011, 12:23 PM

Maybe it's because the teacher feels you're a fool if you don't know LOTR

Or maybe that it has become such an iconic part of our history that it should be included. Or maybe it's just a ploy to get kids to actual participate.

Rumil · 01-23-2011, 01:03 PM

I think one aspect that you could look at is how LoTR has been applied to various movements and political positions. We know that it is not allegory, and no doubt Tolkien would not have expected some of these, but readers use the story to reinforce their prior positions on many matters.

For example:

A 'Green Party' environmentalist may take to heart the story of the destruction of trees in Fangorn forest or the slag heaps and pollution at the gates of Mordor, contrast these with the Shire and Lothlorien and end up even more committed to their cause.

An anti-communist or anti-fascist may decide that Sauron represents the particular dicatorship that they are opposed to, and use the story as a classic good v evil tale.

An anti-nuclear campaigner might (incorrectly) see The Ring as an allegory of nuclear weapons and nuclear power, that should therefore be cast into the Cracks of Doom.

A royalist might find support for ideas that a monarchy is a good idea, looking at Aragorn reuniting the kingdoms and restoring the line of Elendil.

Etc

Etc

How significant any of these might be is a different question, and probably there's no evidence for direct infuence on the politics/economics/warfare sort of history, but there you go!

Morthoron · 01-23-2011, 01:49 PM

The reason? Simple. Mein Kampf simply cannot compete in a smoke ring contest versus a Hobbit. The Communist Manifesto? Well, first off, a Manifesto sounds like something one would serve with marina and sprinkle with Parmesan, and once again would be devoured by any number of rustic Hobbits during one of several meals scattered throughout the day. No competition, really.

PrinceOfTheHalflings · 01-24-2011, 05:30 AM

Seriously, Mein Kampf had close to zero impact on history. Hitler the man had huge impact, but his book is a joke that would bore the pants off the most dedicated Nazi. Sure, The Communist Manifesto was an influential work, but I guarantee you that nobody ever became a Nazi after reading Mein Kampf!

Tolkien, on the other hand, not only created works that are hugely influential on the modern fantasy genre (and arguably lead the way for that genre's current popularity) but he also influenced other related artforms. Star Wars definitely took something from Tolkien, and without Star Wars' influence it's hard to imagine a lot of the modern sci-fi and fantasy film blockbusters ever being made. Then of course there is Peter Jackson's film adaptations of the Lord of the Rings.

Outside of fantasy and sci-fi there is Tolkien's general influence on Western culture. In the UK and the USA "The Lord of the Rings" frequently finishes #1 on the list of books nominated by readers as their favourite - that has to count for something!

To have written what is generally regarded as the best-loved novel of all time - and we are talking about a novel published almost 60 years ago, not some flash in the pan - well, that would seem to indicate some level of historical importance.

01-23-2011, 01:03 PM	#2
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Applicability I think one aspect that you could look at is how LoTR has been applied to various movements and political positions. We know that it is not allegory, and no doubt Tolkien would not have expected some of these, but readers use the story to reinforce their prior positions on many matters. For example: A 'Green Party' environmentalist may take to heart the story of the destruction of trees in Fangorn forest or the slag heaps and pollution at the gates of Mordor, contrast these with the Shire and Lothlorien and end up even more committed to their cause. An anti-communist or anti-fascist may decide that Sauron represents the particular dicatorship that they are opposed to, and use the story as a classic good v evil tale. An anti-nuclear campaigner might (incorrectly) see The Ring as an allegory of nuclear weapons and nuclear power, that should therefore be cast into the Cracks of Doom. A royalist might find support for ideas that a monarchy is a good idea, looking at Aragorn reuniting the kingdoms and restoring the line of Elendil. Etc Etc How significant any of these might be is a different question, and probably there's no evidence for direct infuence on the politics/economics/warfare sort of history, but there you go! __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion Last edited by Rumil; 01-23-2011 at 01:04 PM. Reason: sp

01-23-2011, 01:49 PM	#3
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	The reason? Simple. Mein Kampf simply cannot compete in a smoke ring contest versus a Hobbit. The Communist Manifesto? Well, first off, a Manifesto sounds like something one would serve with marina and sprinkle with Parmesan, and once again would be devoured by any number of rustic Hobbits during one of several meals scattered throughout the day. No competition, really. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

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01-23-2011, 12:23 PM	#1
Laurelin the Younger Newly Deceased Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4	Maybe it's because the teacher feels you're a fool if you don't know LOTR Or maybe that it has become such an iconic part of our history that it should be included. Or maybe it's just a ploy to get kids to actual participate.

01-24-2011, 05:30 AM	#4
PrinceOfTheHalflings Wight Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 120	Seriously, Mein Kampf had close to zero impact on history. Hitler the man had huge impact, but his book is a joke that would bore the pants off the most dedicated Nazi. Sure, The Communist Manifesto was an influential work, but I guarantee you that nobody ever became a Nazi after reading Mein Kampf! Tolkien, on the other hand, not only created works that are hugely influential on the modern fantasy genre (and arguably lead the way for that genre's current popularity) but he also influenced other related artforms. Star Wars definitely took something from Tolkien, and without Star Wars' influence it's hard to imagine a lot of the modern sci-fi and fantasy film blockbusters ever being made. Then of course there is Peter Jackson's film adaptations of the Lord of the Rings. Outside of fantasy and sci-fi there is Tolkien's general influence on Western culture. In the UK and the USA "The Lord of the Rings" frequently finishes #1 on the list of books nominated by readers as their favourite - that has to count for something! To have written what is generally regarded as the best-loved novel of all time - and we are talking about a novel published almost 60 years ago, not some flash in the pan - well, that would seem to indicate some level of historical importance.