Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Agan

Phantom are you keeping in mind that the seer can only dream of dead players after her death?

What?! Seriously? *rereads*

Okay then... Yeah, that changes everything I'd say. Is the Dead-dream always about the Dead as well? It is, isn't it?

Well, so much for that then. If that's the case, then as usual the Wolves will kill the Seer on the very first Night if given the chance. BUT- what is different is that it should probably be much tougher to spot the Seer in the early going as there really isn't any need for him to leave clues, as he can always reveal after death so long as a Dead-Living transfer player is still alive to bring his dreams back. Should the Lovers and Glorfy be downed early, at that point I think the Seer would have little choice but to semi-out himself.

All right- off to work now! But I should be able to keep tabs a bit and post while at work. We'll see.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

And to move on to more productive matters.... This will be just as difficult for the wolves, yes? They won't know who it is they kill, so our information is equal.

Originally Posted by Nessa Wolfrunya, WW LXXXV

My hint was that if she knows something we don't, it's suspicious. After all, the wolves all know something we don't: who to kill.

Hmm...

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Brilliant in the sense of being dead and losing ....

Mith you know that's not what I meant.

Originally Posted by Rikae

One lover needs to be alive to bring the other back, so if the wolves manage to kill the second lover while the first is dead, both stay dead.

So the remaining lover should probably consider revealing only if the ranger is still alive.

Originally Posted by the phantom

What?! Seriously? *rereads*

Okay then... Yeah, that changes everything I'd say. Is the Dead-dream always about the Dead as well? It is, isn't it?

Hmm what do you mean by this?
Too bad though, it would've been great if your plan had worked. Now we need to think of something else.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

So the remaining lover should probably consider revealing only if the ranger is still alive.

I'm afraid the loads of different revelations will be one of our major headaches in this game. Remember, it may be we learn nothing from lynching or saving someone who reveal, whatever that person reveals.

Which actually brings me to a point of actually suggesting quite openly something to everyone as howe to play.

Innocents: do not make false revelations!

Sometimes innocents can make false revelations to try to protect someone they think is a gifted - or to some other ends - but in this game that would be foolish. If we could count on no innocents making a false-reveal we could at least narrow down the possibilities with all the influxing revelations that those doing it are either gifteds (and the ones they say they are), cobblers or wolves.


EDIT: X'd with Leg & Green

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Leg

Legate - that's me
Lommy - that's her.

Trying to earn cuteness points, or what?

Hmm. I seriously need some sleep soon, I'll vote in a while. My vote will go either for a submarine (though obviously not someone who hasn't been around) or Lommy, who I feel the worst about at the moment. I'm feeling more or less okay with Agan (gasp! I wonder how long it will take for me to change my mind on this one), Lottie (I didn't catch anything too cobblerish in her posts, looked more like overdone regular banter to me), and Phantom. Of the rest - most of them are making my head hurt. Sally is slightly fishy but I think I always call her that. Legate is wishy-washy but I know I always call him that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, now Mith actually starts talking, so... I wonder. Anyway, I should go to sleep soon - out of the quieter ones, apart from Mith I might possibly go for Nessa, but not sure...

Originally Posted by A Little Green

her idea of a Bobbler

Cuute!!!

Originally Posted by LG

I'm not sure I approve of Nog and phantom advising the Gifted - or the said two (and Ang) also giving advice to the wolves..

Indeed, not sure if I approve of that either... but well, nothing more than that for now and I am simply looking forward to reading more from them in the future that will determine better decipher their intentions...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Innocents: do not make false revelations!

Sometimes innocents can make false revelations to try to protect someone they think is a gifted - or to some other ends - but in this game that would be foolish. If we could count on no innocents making a false-reveal we could at least narrow down the possibilities with all the influxing revelations that those doing it are either gifteds (and the ones they say they are), cobblers or wolves.

Well, I second the fact that we have enough of confusion possible, but if we look at it purely rationally, apart from what you say, the situation you prefer works also so that people can determine that if somebody is not claiming to be a Gifted, then they are either Ordos, Cobblers or Wolves. Basically it only rules out one possible mistake, and it is, in fact, the most beneficial for the Wolves. This way, the WWs don't have to fear false reveals or such, and it is probably the last piece of puzzle they need (okay, they also need the Cobblers, but it is one more piece of puzzle). But if you make it a rule, then you basically clarify it for the Wolves by drawing a line: here are the Gifteds (and Cobblers) and here are the normal people (and Cobblers). No, I think it should not be a "rule" - but people should simply act reasonably.

Anyway, going to vote and sleep.

EDIT: x-ed with Agan, Greenie and Mith

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, now Mith actually starts talking, so... I wonder. Anyway, I should go to sleep soon - out of the quieter ones, apart from Mith I might possibly go for Nessa, but not sure...

Wonder what? That I would somehow anticipate that you would find me suspicious and "start talking" and hour or so before you would claim that I was being quiet? Ludicrous. I have been around because I now have a computer and no job as opposed to a job and no computer. There has just been more going on later as a quick glance at distribition of posts over time would show. This says a lot more about you than me.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I'm positively stumped about who to vote. Everyone seems so ambiguous!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, after a quick read, the two I find most off are...

Phantom (surprise surprise) and Nogrod. Both seem, to me, to be trying to tell the wolves/cobblers what to do - in Phantom's case, it looks more like a Cobbler talking to the wolves and trusting to his reputation to not get him lynched.

That's what I've got. I'll do a more in-depth readthrough now.

[elronds_daughter]

Hrmmmphh. Seems I've missed a lot so far toDay, though none of it terribly conclusive. Lots of lengthy posts, though...

(As an aside, I probably should have informed everyone that when Days fall on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, I won't be around at all until a few hours from DL...methinks I am trying to cram too much into my last semester of school...)

Anyhow. Most unhappy with not having a very good read on anybody yet.

Legate, Nog, and Agan are of course posting their usual tomes. Lommy seems a little more...confused...than usual. (Though who am I to talk about "usual", this being only my third game ever...) phantom is on my good side at the moment. Despite the incessant chatter (joke), he seems to be thinking things through in a more, erm, down-to-earth fashion than other tome-writers (sorry, Legate and Co.).

Right. Well. Those are my limited observations for the moment. I'll be back in a while to vote. This is going to be a very interesting game....

EDIT: x'ed with Shasta (how did I forget about him???) and Nessa.

[Aganzir]

I approve of Nog and phantom advising the gifteds - at least in the sense that it's typical of them. Yeah the gifteds are usually capable of thinking things through themselves, but saying something just to be on the safe side shouldn't hurt anyone.

At the moment some people seem to be (considering) voting for a quiet player. Is that a good idea? I'd actually rather leave the quieter players alive this time... The more they post, the more trails we have.

Originally Posted by the phantom

if you have an inkling of who the Seer might possibly be and that person dies, you should go ahead and point out your theory (especially if you can discover some sort of coded message or whatnot, I'm not the only person who does that sort of thing, am I?) and then treat future Dead-votes as a vindication of someone, assuming that the Seer is able to properly convince the Dead upon arrival.

That sounds reasonable, I guess (and hehe no you aren't )... But even a few baddies can screw up the voting in Mandos, so we really have no way of being sure. That's the problem with just about every plan. We can of course risk it and agree on a plan of sorts, especially if the lovers and/or Glorfindel is still alive, but I'm skeptical.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Excuse me?!

Sorry, still reading, but that caught my eye and now I'm going to have to challenge Manwe to a duel.

I was looking forward to seeing your reaction.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Hey! You of all people don't get to call me nit-picky!

Yes I do. You always find me unclear and ask for a clarification.

[the phantom]

Okay, so, I believe I've heard multiple people talk about baddies messing things up in Dead-Thread. Is it a good idea then to avoid lynching suspected Cobblers? Because really Cobblers are the only Baddies that can do damage over time in Dead-Thread, because identities of Wolves can be checked by the dead. If we do our best to keep Cobblers alive, Goodies will own Dead-Land with total authority.

If the Wolves want to screw things up in Dead-Land, make them flush a kill on a Cobbler.

The obvious drawback is if we adopt this plan and all three Cobblers act Cobblerish and stay alive and, IF we fail to lynch Wolves early on, the Baddies can clinch victory a couple days before they normally could. But really that would assume that every little thing went wrong, yes?

So.... long live the Cobblers?

[Mithalwen]

As for the quiet players... there is often a reluctance to lynch the quiet players in the first instance they often get the benefit of the doubt which a wolf might take advantage of. A gifted player might not to want to draw attention to themselves either but they of course wouldn't want to be so inconspicuous that they made themselves a night target for the wolves (a death that would provide no clues to the village). Of course the fact that death isn't quite the end changes the dynamic.

[Nogrod]

I don't want to bring in any old discussions and debates, but I must say Mith looks more like an innocent, because of her response to Legate.

A short list of my feelings before the voting (short on explanations as I don't have time to write any longer analysis).

Innocent:
Aganzir - Good posting, innocent vibes, feels like she's trying to find the answers that are for the benefit of the village.

Innocentish:
the phantom - Generally makes good points a wolf might not wish to make, it's just that a few of them do not let me pick him into category above.
Anguirel - Seems getting the idea of our good and makes posts a wolf-Ang probably wouldn't.
Mith - For her comment on Legate (and for that familiar annoyance against anything I say... if she were a wolf she would be nicer to me ).

Could go either way:
Legate - Seems too happy to jump on some things I do disagree, but on the other hand hasn't said or done anything really suspicious.
Lommy - Basically seems to have the hang of it but has the air of avoiding things or, well, what some others have said, over-stating things. Smething says I should not trust her but on the other hand I find nothing clear-cut wrong.
Nerwen - Like someone said before: both clearly up to the situation but still mainly just bantering (was online only relatively early on the Day so that might be understandable).

Slightly worried:
Boro - the way he jumps on someone (yes, me) trying to turn the discussion on a more fruitful ground by saying it's "spinning things for my purposes" (so you should read they are bad) and after being questioned about that by some others, changing his point into me being a pessimist (which wasn't the point of my message) and thus suspicious? Odd, from him.


Of others I have not much to say. But will probably vote for one of them others.

Everyone from the classes I've done here will probably be readable in a way or another.

In a few minutes something. Then vote. Then to bed.


EDIT: X'd from Mith onwards.

[A Little Green]

Hello bunnies. I'm here at last, though won't be for long, I need to be off to bed. A few comments.

Originally Posted by Lommy

You're probably going to kill me for this, but I really do want to lynch the phantom. Both for making fun of me (as if I'd ever protect anyone with such a small head and long sleeves!) and because he's never been lynched on Day1 before. I say it'd be a nice idea to have a shot at him joining our little pack of fenrises. I could also lynch Lottie just for being a tp fangirl, but I guess that's just how she is...

Originally Posted by Lomz

And guess what my "twitter impression" is? I says you're a cobbler trying to send messages to wolves - "steering" sounds duspiciously close to "seering".

Okay I know this might seem paranoid with seeing cobblers everywhere, but there's three of them out there so I'm kind of freaked out with the idea of how many people are trying to mess up with our heads. I'm sure they will come up with some rather ingenious startegies (given their endless lifespan and ability to remain unidentified) and that does not make me happy at all. So, we should really watch out for them too. This is not deny the obvious - wolves should be our preference.

To tell you the truth, Lommy is creeping me out at the moment. Wanting to kill phantom and Lottie strikes me as awfully easy - also partly because I'm quite fine with both of them right now. Also, her idea of a Bobbler is pretty far-fetched, but I don't know if it's meant as fully serious or not. And regardless of the very last sentence, the paragraph about being paranoid with all the cobblers looks - well - cobblerish to me.

Originally Posted by Aganz

phantom. About the only reason I'm happy about not being a wolf (ie. I don't have to think of what to do with him).

Erm? What exactly are you talking about?

I'm not sure I approve of Nog and phantom advising the Gifted - or the said two (and Ang) also giving advice to the wolves..

Originally Posted by Agan

They have no way of knowing who's good or bad, except via a seer dream, but the longer it takes for the seer to die, the better. Until then, the dead don't know if they're talking with an ordo or a cobbler and can't trust each other with good reason. Therefore I see little risk of a dangerous dead union.

Wait.. The perspective of that last sentence is strange, considering that the topic I believe was innocents uniting in Mandos.

Originally Posted by Nog

A wolf(g)ang

I'm willing to give Nog a pass for this one.


EDIT: x-ed with Agan and Legs