The King's Players - Discussion/Planning Thread

[Mnemosyne]

Lari, including some movieverse distortions would be fine with me as long as it didn't go into overkill. I've seen this done before in fan fiction to varying degrees of success, and it always threw me out of the narrative a little bit. But if it yielded just a chuckle and I was pulled back in I always liked it.

As far as cameo-ing Eowyn, I did put "no canon characters" for the bit part sheets, and while I might be willing-er to let that slide with Ioreth, who's a very minor character in Tolkien, Eowyn seems to be too big of a deal. I much prefer the idea of "joint ownership" of canon characters, written as NPCs as necessary. But if the rest of the writers like the idea I'm more than willing to yield.

Harrenon and Asta both look great. Brinn will be happy to have a sister who does not share her clumsiness.

I do have a question about Therian, though. If he believes that women have no place outside of the household, how does he reconcile that with the fact that we have two women in our company, one of whom helped found it and is running a household within the company perfectly well, thank you very much? And how would he have joined the group in the first place? It sounds like a lovely bit of conflict, and one that I'd be more than happy to play with, but I guess I'm a bit confused...

Brinn still needs a husband, btw. I can make him an NPC, or he could be Branor (although that would depend entirely on him as Boro sees him, and besides that would make for some fun domestic rows), or we should start PMing various other 'Downers and seeing if we can pull them in. We're still only at five Players right now and I wouldn't mind getting up to six or more.

Another thing that occurred to me, from Firefoot's Dwarf suggestion. I doubt that the Dwarves of Durin's line, at least, would be quite as willing to take liberties with the text that Men of Dale would, but what about children? Depending on how long this show's been on the road (literally!) Brinn could have a few wee ones who could be put to work as "Aww, aren't they cute" hobbit/child performers. Alternately, recruiting talented street urchins for the final cut could potentially be very touching.

I probably don't have time for the character sheet before my night class starts, but I'll get it up later this evening.

Oh, and our company might need a writer.

Oh, and our dragon does need a name.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Lari, including some movieverse distortions would be fine with me as long as it didn't go into overkill.

I'm speaking for Lari only because I'm not sure she's done with her epic delayed travels yet, and because I know what she's got in mind since she and I were brainstorming together during our bouts of homelessness last week.

In terms of movie distortions, what we had in mind was in line with your idea of stage show plotlines that don't mesh perfectly with the actual events. So instead of having our 'real life' characters go with movie canon instead of book canon, the idea we had was to throw a few Easter eggs into the plot lines of the performances.

Confused Audience Member 1: "Now, I cannot say I was there for this, and I do not know for sure that my memory means a thing, or anything, and all, but I do not remember the minstrels singin' about m'lady majesty the Queen's father Lord Elrond climbin' up that mountain path with a sword!"

Confused Audience Member 2: "Now I heard m'lord Elrond followed the Fellowship to make sure they did it right, so that don't make no nevermind to me, but what I can't see is this: why ain't Tom Bombadil in the story?"

What we had in mind were passing comments that would get a giggle out of each other and readers, but without descending into movie issues as part of our actual story.

As far as cameo-ing Eowyn, I did put "no canon characters" for the bit part sheets, and while I might be willing-er to let that slide with Ioreth, who's a very minor character in Tolkien, Eowyn seems to be too big of a deal. I much prefer the idea of "joint ownership" of canon characters, written as NPCs as necessary. But if the rest of the writers like the idea I'm more than willing to yield.

We had this in mind for the following reason: Eowyn would only appear very [very] briefly during the final performance, basically seated silently in the audience somewhere, not actually doing anything. The only activity she would have would be an extremely brief and poignant (ahem, *snicker*) encounter with my Therian, who might just have reason to change his mind about his opinion on shieldmaidens.

So though Eowyn is, herself, a major character, her role in this game would be a bit part, no more than a post or two between me and Lari near the end.

Of course you may still veto it, since you did say no canon characters, but we were hoping you might let it slide because of how tiny and innocuous the role we had in mind was.

I do have a question about Therian, though.

If he believes that women have no place outside of the household, how does he reconcile that with the fact that we have two women in our company, one of whom helped found it and is running a household within the company perfectly well, thank you very much?

I daresay there might be some tension, is what I say.

And how would he have joined the group in the first place?

He is a very fine actor, you see. But all the good roles were taken, and the need for a shieldmaiden arose, and nobody could do justice to the part and/or nobody wanted it, and Therian is just biding his time until he gets a promotion to the part he really wants, which is actually the role of Theoden, because he feels he would be slain with Shakespearean gusto.

I have been slain! he would cry. And then he would give a speech. And then he would clutch his wound, and cry, I am slain, I have died, I am gone. And then in the next scene, still clutching his side (or head, or leg, or heart), he would again cry, Death finds me now!

But until the Theoden role opens up, he's just biding his time, playing the role of shieldmaiden with irritating excellence, and ticking off the ladies with his unspoken judgment of their roving ways. After all, he's from Dale, where women behave like women, not from places like Rohan, where legend has it women give birth in the saddle on their way somewhere.

It sounds like a lovely bit of conflict, and one that I'd be more than happy to play with, but I guess I'm a bit confused...

He wants to be an actor, and he wants to be in the troupe, but he doesn't want to play the stupid shieldmaiden, and he might secretly be in love with someone, but I haven't quite worked that part out yet, and it's making him stomp around like a bull with a bellyache.

Brinn still needs a husband, btw. I can make him an NPC, or he could be Branor

Therian could attempt to court her? Obviously he'd have to come to terms with powerful women before it would ever work out, and then she'd still be well within her rights to both deny him and fire him...

Brinn could have a few wee ones who could be put to work as "Aww, aren't they cute" hobbit/child performers. Alternately, recruiting talented street urchins for the final cut could potentially be very touching.

AWWW!!!!!

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I'm speaking for Lari only because I'm not sure she's done with her epic delayed travels yet, and because I know what she's got in mind since she and I were brainstorming together during our bouts of homelessness last week.

In terms of movie distortions, what we had in mind was in line with your idea of stage show plotlines that don't mesh perfectly with the actual events. So instead of having our 'real life' characters go with movie canon instead of book canon, the idea we had was to throw a few Easter eggs into the plot lines of the performances.

Confused Audience Member 1: "Now, I cannot say I was there for this, and I do not know for sure that my memory means a thing, or anything, and all, but I do not remember the minstrels singin' about m'lady majesty the Queen's father Lord Elrond climbin' up that mountain path with a sword!"

Confused Audience Member 2: "Now I heard m'lord Elrond followed the Fellowship to make sure they did it right, so that don't make no nevermind to me, but what I can't see is this: why ain't Tom Bombadil in the story?"

What we had in mind were passing comments that would get a giggle out of each other and readers, but without descending into movie issues as part of our actual story.

Passing giggle-worthy comments are more than okay, thanks for clarifying.

We had this in mind for the following reason: Eowyn would only appear very [very] briefly during the final performance, basically seated silently in the audience somewhere, not actually doing anything. The only activity she would have would be an extremely brief and poignant (ahem, *snicker*) encounter with my Therian, who might just have reason to change his mind about his opinion on shieldmaidens.

So though Eowyn is, herself, a major character, her role in this game would be a bit part, no more than a post or two between me and Lari near the end.

Of course you may still veto it, since you did say no canon characters, but we were hoping you might let it slide because of how tiny and innocuous the role we had in mind was.

Okay, I wasn't sure if Eowyn was going to have to act as a historical source or something. Of course, if anyone wants to run into her as part of our research (or any of the other canons), and can square the matter away with the fact that she'd probably be a busy, busy woman (and I trust all of you to have that kind of discretion), that's fine... I'd just like to limit the extent to which these are played as characters, if that makes sense.



On Therian: sounds good. I do think that Brinn should have gotten married before she left Dale, though, because--well, maybe they do things different in Dale, but I can't help but think that most people would assume something about a bunch of single ladies travelling with a bunch of single gents. If Brinn's married, then we have someone in the trusted position of looking out for her sister's "virtue."

Anyway, I'll write her bio that way for now, and I'll keep filling in the details as I get more input.

[Mnemosyne]

NAME: Brinn (stage name Celebrindal)

AGE/GENDER/RACE/WHERE FROM: 27, female, Man, Dale

APPEARANCE (very brief physical description/or as detailed as the player wishes to be): Brinn is pretty average size-wise: medium height, tends to the plump side but thins out during peak playing season (see below). Her hair is naturally auburn, but she dyed it black when the troupe first came to Gondor (she thought it would help) and has been known to do so again from time to time. Hazel eyes and a few freckles scattered across her nose.

BITS OF CHARACTER/HISTORY YOU FEEL MIGHT BE HELPFUL IN DEFINING THE CHARACTER
(again, as brief or detailed as you wish):

Personality: Brinn has a quick mind for ideas, planning, and management: the intellectual satisfaction she gets from being with the Players is dealing with the unpredictability of life on the road and its challenges. She is usually common sensical, but every once in a while comes out with a brilliantly stupid idea that she's headstrong enough to think will work even when everyone is trying to persuade her otherwise.

Her emotional satisfaction comes from making other people happy, and she can't rest if she's aware of unresolved conflicts among the Players--especially if it's going to start bleeding into their work.

When under stress, Brinn tends to pinch the bridge of her nose... a lot... and if it's an ongoing situation in need of resolution, she forgets to eat in her efforts to get everything worked out. She's gotten burned out a couple of times over the years and forced to sit down and be coddled by her family.

Brinn is somewhat clumsy, enough for her to be afraid of messing things up if she makes her way onto a fully decorated set. She has acted before and will do so in a pinch, but most of the time she gets props ready, helps with quick costume changes, etc.

She is possessed of one fiddle, which has been known to entertain the crowds through a squeaky intermission. Playing it is one of the few times that Brinn can lose herself to abstraction.

History: Brinn's father was a mechanical toymaker in Dale--one of the best. When he was commissioned to make the new mechanical dragon for the Feast of the Dragon* in Dale, she had an idea for something to do with the old one...

Talking with her friends and betrothed, many of whom were involved with the theatrical part of the festival, she devised a way to take the annual performance on the road and entertain the surrounding countryside. When the scheme actually looked pretty watertight, her father let her have the old dragon. Together, the soon-to-be-Players pooled together enough money to buy two travelling wagons and draft animals. A few more people were necessary for the scheme to be watertight.

After her father would not allow her more mechanically-minded sister to go with them, Brinn convinced Asta to join them anyway. This has led to tense situations whenever the troupe returns to Dale. Additionally, since many of the Players were better at playing one sort of role than another (whether they perceived themselves as such or not), she decided to see if she could recruit the more versatile Therian and was pleasantly surprised when he joined up. The group set out after Brinn and her fiance were married.

Since then, Brinn has travelled with the Players and considers them her family (though she may have one or two young ones of her own at this point). When they decided they were going to head to Gondor, she was the one to get a hold of a map and figure out which places were well off enough to give them money if they performed. She also helped settle a tricky dispute with the older and better-known Swan Players of Dol Amroth over their theatrical circuit. While in Gondor, Brinn took on the stage name Celebrindal, and this is usually how she introduces herself to Gondorian strangers, because it sounds more impressive.

*tentative title

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Brinn still needs a husband, btw. I can make him an NPC, or he could be Branor (although that would depend entirely on him as Boro sees him, and besides that would make for some fun domestic rows),

Branor could be, I just didn't know how much of a functional marriage you wanted for Brinn. As you said, I could see some pleasant conflicts. I had planned for Branor to have a massive ego, and usually people like that don't get married, because they are too full of themselves to ever consider anyone else's happiness. However, he does have redeeming qualities, as he will listen to Brinn. That doesn't mean he listens to Brinn ALL the time. But I'll put it this way, the chances he would listen to Therian or Harrenon are nil, Brinn can at least get through his big head....sometimes.

[Mnemosyne]

Boro, thanks for your points. I had been wondering about the likelihood of someone like Branor getting married, but still wanted to punt the idea out there for consideration.

I'll think about it a little bit longer.

In the meantime, I wouldn't mind some input on the timeline for the game: do we want to go "real time" or "half time"? Which do you think your posting ability, and your characters, will be better for the game? (I have no preferences on my end.)

[Pitchwife]

Mnemo has been so generous as to draft an utter RP noob into this troupe (not that it took an awful lot of convincing), so here I am, and help me Eru. Since I'm new to this whole section of the Downs (as a participant, if not as an occasional observer) I hope you'll bear with me if I get confuddled at times.

Mnemo, I've just read your lengthy character bio for Brinn and noticed that, among her other duties as head of the troupe, she's supposed to take care of the prompting. This is quite a pity for me, as I have this character in the back of my skull wanting to be let out - the prompter cum poète manqué, who is convinced he could have done a much better job than the actual playwright (if only he had the stamina to ever get more down on paper than a list of dramatis personae and some disjointed snippets of dialogue) and is constantly fighting the temptation to 'improve' on the script during the performance (possibly succumbing to it at times). Do you think that might be negotiable?

While I'm at it, did Brinn write the play herself, did the troupe write it collectively, or do we have a playwright who's somehow involved in the production? Going with the Shakespearean/Elizabethan model, the playwright would probably be the director of his own play and an actor with a substantial role all at the same time, if I'm not mistaken?

As for theatrical logistics: with 6-8 players, I suppose all of us will have to play double or multiple roles (referring to the play, not the game, I mean)?

As for production style (i.e. Shakespearean, Greek, medieval or whatever): how much anachronism would you be willing to tolerate? Because I've got this mad vision in my brain of the War of the Ring as a Pantomime, complete with cross dressing, slapstick scenes, audience participation and popular song parodies... (Allright, I just notice Mnemo's been there before me (#26). Yes!!!)

Finally, speaking of anachronisms, I move that our mechanical dragon be nicknamed Puff.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I move that our mechanical dragon be nicknamed Puff.

I vote Trogdor.

[Mnemosyne]

Pitch, go ahead and take over the prompting. I'm thinking that we have one over-worked writer who will have to take all of our information and distill it properly. On the other hand, relegating that to an NPC (no matter who it is) would, I think, be a shame since much of the action will revolve around rewriting. I think that we would all have some input, but ultimately the decisions have to be made by someone or no one will get it done.

Has anyone read, or seen a really good adaptation of, Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens? The title character falls into an acting troupe as an actor-cum-writer, and has to juggle the multiple players requesting that their own favorite bits be inserted (i.e., a tragic character, preserving the Three Unities, etc.). The results can often be hilarious. Anyway, that was what I vaguely had in mind when thinking of what our poor overworked writer would do.

As far as the pantomime: were you thinking the contemporary panto, then, or the early pantomimes in which people actually didn't talk? (Say, you do a comical version in pantomime, a song for intermission, and then the serious spoken play.) I don't think we're limited to one performance, depending on what sort of theatrical era we're imitating. So we're also not limited to one style of theater (drama, melodrama, farce, etc.).

I, too, was thinking that multiple parts could be a necessity, but we can also have more NPC players if we need to fill out more parts on the stage at some point.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Apart from NPCs, it's possible (indeed, probable?) that traveling actors might have multiple roles within their community.

For instance, when not being Shieldmaiden, Therian is likely busy playing Gondorian Soldier #3, or Wedding Celebrant #7. The costume changes can be a bit daunting, but that's what wigs and cloaks are for...