Christopher Tolkien at it again....

[davem]

Originally Posted by garm

I do. I've changed my mind about davem in the last few months, though.

Well, if was feeling facetious I could point out that I am not here to live up to your expectations.....

However. Let us not.....

Perhaps you could clarify your position - simply that you will support CT/The Estate no matter what they do - that as far as you are concerned whatever they do must be right simply because they are the ones doing it?

In other words 'rightness' in this context = whatever CT/the Estate choose to do - even if the law, say, decided that they were wrong to threaten legal action against a person/company who produced a jokey badge which mentioned Tolkien (noting, btw, that JRRT/CT are not the only writers of that name - Tolkien's other grandson, Simon, is also a published author), you would still claim that the law in that instance was wrong? Or if the courts decided that using Tolkien as a character in a historical novel (as has happened with numerous other historical figures - & which Tolkien himself did in NCP) was perfectly acceptable?

You see, its all well & good to go on the offensive (& kudos for the Garm = Domini Canes thing) but you haven't put a case, or defended their actions. Its hardly good enough to pop up & say 'Oh, davem, oh, I've changed my mind about davem'. The Estate have acted, they have changed things - books that have been written have been prevented from appearing, books that have appeared they are attempting to ban & have copies destroyed. Someone who makes a jokey badge is threatened & stopped. And your response to these moves is not to defend them or argue any justification, but to simply accept this behaviour & say you're disappointed in anyone who criticises them.

Maybe I expected better of them & you didn't?

[Bêthberry]

Apparently the Zazzle thing was not instigated by the Tolkien Estate after all.

Zazzle found the button "potentially infringing".

[Mister Underhill]

Here's a blog post with the emails between the guy who made the button and Zazzle after this dustup started:

http://www.giro.org/2011/03/01/the-zazzle-emails/

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Here's a blog post with the emails between the guy who made the button and Zazzle after this dustup started:

http://www.giro.org/2011/03/01/the-zazzle-emails/

Zazzle has loads of Tolkien stuff available - or did last time I looked. The idea that people there would suddenly pick this one to ban without any kind of official/semi-official contact is hard to believe.

Being a regular reader of Techdirt I've lost count of the number of stories about lawyers threatening action on behalf of their clients, negative publicity ensuing, & the clients then issuing a statement that it had nothing to do with them......

Awaiting a report that they didn't try & stop the books, really, truly.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by davem

Zazzle has loads of Tolkien stuff available - or did last time I looked. The idea that people there would suddenly pick this one to ban without any kind of official/semi-official contact is hard to believe.

If the site has "loads" of stuff available, why would the Estate object to that one particular item, but no others?

I don't know anything about Zazzle, but sites like YouTube seem pretty arbitrary sometimes about what they block because of copyright concerns. Really, it seems rather unfair of you to lay this at the feet of the Estate with no evidence to back up your suspicion.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If the site has "loads" of stuff available, why would the Estate object to that one particular item, but no others?

If Zazzle has lots of Tolkien stuff (which it does http://www.zazzle.co.uk/tolkien+gifts ) then why would they remove just one of them unless 'someone' told them to?

Really, it seems rather unfair of you to lay this at the feet of the Estate with no evidence to back up your suspicion.

I posted links to the story.. And it was Zazzle themselves who stated that the Estate's lawyers had asked them to remove the product. And however this turns out the point of the thread - which is not in dispute - is the Estates's attempted censorship/banning of books.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by davem

And it was Zazzle themselves who stated that the Estate's lawyers had asked them to remove the product. And however this turns out the point of the thread - which is not in dispute - is the Estates's attempted censorship/banning of books.

The purpose of this thread originally was to discuss the Mirkwood book, but it was you who brought up the Zazzle story.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by davem

Zazzle has loads of Tolkien stuff available - or did last time I looked. The idea that people there would suddenly pick this one to ban without any kind of official/semi-official contact is hard to believe.

Being a regular reader of Techdirt I've lost count of the number of stories about lawyers threatening action on behalf of their clients, negative publicity ensuing, & the clients then issuing a statement that it had nothing to do with them......

Awaiting a report that they didn't try & stop the books, really, truly.

Davem, have you ever considered you might be juuust the teeniest, tiniest bit... let's say, over-involved with this issue? And maybe you need to just, you know, take a few deep breaths and relax? Just a thought

[davem]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Davem, have you ever considered you might be juuust the teeniest, tiniest bit... let's say, over-involved with this issue? And maybe you need to just, you know, take a few deep breaths and relax? Just a thought

Honestly - I never get 'over-involved' on this forum. I argue for fun sometimes, or to challenge myself & others, even to explore an idea, to pick it up & run with it & see where we can get to, or what other people think. I can't recall ever getting angry or annoyed during a discussion.

If people are bored with this one we can just stop?