Was Melkor Bipolar?

[Nerwen]

I'm sorry, Ren, but I don't understand how it can be valid to diagnose a fictional character with anything. At most you can say something like, "he had the symptoms of X" or "might have been diagnosed with Y if he'd been a real person".

This–

Originally Posted by Ren

I do realize that Melkor is a fictional character penned before Manic-Depressive/Bipolar disorder was recognized. However, so was Mr. Toad from “The Wind in the Willows”, and he definitely had the disorder.

–is, I'm afraid, simply begging the question.

[Nerwen]

Besides, Ren, surely you've noticed that every time some disease or other gets a somewhat positive media coverage, and a crop of "celebrity victims" many people are– for a little while– convinced they see it in themselves, their family members, historical figures, characters in Shakespeare... etc., etc. In fact, there's probably about fifty other things you could "diagnose" Melkor with just as easily.

Was he in fact, crazy? Well, I certainly wouldn't call him a paragon of mental balance, would you? But I think it's just more valid to leave it at at "generally, amorphously crazy" rather than trying to pin a medical diagnosis on a fictional character, especially one who isn't even a human being.

[Morthoron]

I wonder if one can even state a divinity or angelic being (albeit, a fictional deity) can exhibit any form of mental illness or ailments whatsoever. Being immortal, it would seem that such a being would not suffer from diminished mental capacity or the thousand natural shocks which flesh is heir to.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I wonder if one can even state a divinity or angelic being (albeit, a fictional deity) can exhibit any form of mental illness or ailments whatsoever. Being immortal, it would seem that such a being would not suffer from diminished mental capacity or the thousand natural shocks which flesh is heir to.

All the same, I do quite like the idea of Morgoth trying to plead insanity after the War of Wrath.

[Cirdan]

And was Melkor tired, depressed and suicidal? -the other "pole"?

https://health.google.com/health/ref/Bipolar+disorder

Melkor was evil, the Satanic, fallen 'angel'.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Cirdan

Melkor was evil....

Och, go on with ye then! He weren't evil, he were jus' misunderstood.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Och, go on with ye then! He weren't evil, he were jus' misunderstood.

Curse you, Morth! I was just about to post that myself!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Ren the Unclean

I have always found the evil characters interesting.

Wouldn't have guessed that from your screen name...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

At most you can say something like, "he had the symptoms of X" or "might have been diagnosed with Y if he'd been a real person".

Or you could have been charitable and assumed that this was what he meant. I know what you mean though concerning the hype about some disorders - back in the good old days it was en vogue to talk and write about Hamlet's Oedipus complex, nowadays it's ADHD, Bipolar and Asperger's. (I dimly remember a thread from some years ago that proposed Bilbo and Frodo were Aspies...)

Originally Posted by Cirdan

And was Melkor tired, depressed and suicidal? -the other "pole"?

This is were Ren's diagnosis fails, I think. I'm sure Melkor was a hell unto himself, but he had lots of energy, and all his aggression was turned outside, none on himself.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I wonder if one can even state a divinity or angelic being (albeit, a fictional deity) can exhibit any form of mental illness or ailments whatsoever.

If I remember correctly, Tolkien himself said somewhere in Morgoth's Ring that M. was insane by the time of the War of Wrath, contrasting him with Sauron, but I don't have the book to quote it.

Anyway, welcome to the Downs, Ren! Being undead by nature, you should feel at home here.

[Durelin]

Yes, I would echo Cirdan and say that Melkor was way too focused to be bipolar. Beside the fact that bipolar disorder as far as I know can't be boiled down to mood swings or simply being at one or other end of a spectrum of 'feeling'...

Where I guess you could also go with this is what personality traits were meant to emphasize his evilness? And then...oh no, on to shaky territory, talking about what the author intended...what traits did Tolkien associate with evilness? I don't think Tolkien was the type to sit down and sympathize with his evil Maiar, though...

Or simply, evil is insanity. And obviously insanity doesn't equal having some sort(s) of disorder(s) -- but the idea of insanity. Mythical and literary insanity rather than psychological and technical. It is everything that is not right.

(But actually I don't think Charlie Sheen is too bad of a comparison since I think he is quite purposeful in his insanity, both the feigned and real.)