* * Valaquenta Some proposals for a new project ... * *

[Findegil]

Gondowe proposed the follwing change in the thread about general changes:

include only in the Valaquenta an allusion of Mairon as the original name of Sauron per Words, Phrases and passages PE17, pg183:
for example:
Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was [Mairon,] that spirit whom the Eldar [later] called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning...

The passage in Parma Eldalamberon 17: Words, Phrases and Passages in The Lord of the Rings on page 184 reads:

√SAWA-, disgusting, foul, vile: [Q saura, foul, vile whence name Sauron.]* prefix Q sau- as in: saucare, doing or making a thing very badly. Not used in Sindarin as prefix; but the adjective saur occurs in sense 'bad' of food etc., putrid, also substantive saw, flith, putrescence.

also Q söa, flith (sawā). [Added in the left margin.]

* This name is also used in late 3[rd] age Sindarin and could be a genuine Sindarin formation from saur; but is probably from Quenya. The ancient Sindarin name for Sauron was Gorthaur, of quite distinct origin: from √ÑGOR 'terror' and √THUS, evil mist, fog, Darkness: ñgor(o)-thūsō > Gorthu 'Mist of Fear'; cf. thû, horrible darkness, black mist < thūsē.
Sauron's original name was Mairon, but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon the Admirable, or Tar-mairon 'King Excellent' until after the downfall of Númenor. The Quenya form equivalent to Gorthu was ñorthus, ñorsus, stem ñorsūr-

I would add a bit more then Gondowe suggested:

Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. Vala-07.5 <Words. Phrases and Passages Sauron's original name was Mairon, but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon the Admirable, or Tar-mairon 'King Excellent' until after the downfall of Númenor.> In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[gondowe]

OK its right, but the complete sentence I had inserted in the General guide of names at the end of the Vol 3. And a nice place could be better when he is described in the passage from "Of the rings of Power". That in my version is part of the subchapter "Of the Return of Sauron" from the part II "Middle Earth" of the First Part "The Second Age" of that Vol 3.

Greetings.

[Findegil]

As I work through these text again I found some points missing:

Then those of the Ainur who desired it arose and entered into the World at the beginning of Time; and it was their task to achieve it, and by their labours to fulfil the vision which they had seen. Long they laboured in the regions of Eä, which are vast beyond the thought of Elves and Men, until in the time appointed was made Arda, the Kingdom of Earth. Then they put on the raiment of Earth and descended into it, and dwelt therein Vala-00.3<Vq2 ; and they are therein>.

Even so Christopher Tolkien does not comment on this it seems that he skipt that half sentence editorially. I dont see a good reason for that and would reinstall it.
From the passage about Tulkas:

He has little heed for either the past or the future, and is of no avail as a counsellor, but is a hardy friend. Vala-04.5<LQ2 He has great love for {Fionwe, son [>} Eönwë, herald{]} of Manwe.> His spouse is Nessa, the sister of Oromë, and she also is lithe and fleetfooted.

This was skipt by JRR Tolkien from LQ2 to Vq1, but in view of the passages taken from Sil77 about Eönwë, I think we should also restore this addition.

Above all the horns of his host it was heard in the woods that Yavanna brought forth in Valinor; for there Oromë would train his folk and his beasts for the pursuit of the evil creatures of Melkor. Vala-05.2 {<Vq2 But the Valaróma is not blown, and Nahar runs no more upon the Middle-earth since the change of the world and the waning of the Elves, whom he loved.>} The spouse of Oromë is Vána, ...

Christopher Tolkien does not provide a reason why he removed that sentence, and we did not discuss it as fare as I could find. So my question is why shouldn't we reinstall it?

Respectfuly
Findegil

[gondowe]

Ok in everything, I think that the last sentence must be reinserted, it was written by Tolkien and as you said there's no reason to remove it.

Greetings

[gandalf85]

Regarding Fin's response to Arcus' first three additions, it is true that Tolkien moved toward a much more structured and delineated approach for this chapter (Elizabeth Whittingham has a good discussion of this in her "Evolution Of Tolkien's Mythology: A Study of the History of Middle-earth"). Maybe we could introduce the lesser spirits later? In Chapter 1, which is where it seems the descriptions of the dwellings were moved? I haven't reviewed that chapter yet, I will see if it makes sense there.

What about the other addition Arcus suggested in 1?

Vala-0.245 <MT Varda was the most foresighted of all the Valar, possessing the clearest memory of the Music and Vision in which she had played only a small part as actor or player, but had listened most attentively.>

This looks good to me.

4) I have problems with this addition. The idea that "all must bow before her" (emphasis mine) and that she is the "mistress of death" does not seem to fit with her character in the revisions, in which she becomes the goddess of pity and compassion and strength and wisdom.

5) and 6) I think these additions work well, especially if these other names are used later.

Regarding Vala-07.2 why not just:

Vala-07.23b{(sc.} He was the greatest created power <moved under Eru.>{)

This is more of a stylistic change, but it seems like consolidating the two sentences is the simplest solution to avoiding redundancy and keeping both ideas.

Regarding Vala-07, the comment about Olorin being humble, I think we should remove the apostrophes as we are not quoting anybody.

[Findegil]

1) Vala-02.45: The addition about Varda from MT is okay for me.

4) Vala-04.3: I think the attributes of being a death goddess were lost for Niënna in the later legendary. So I agree to gandalf85 that this addition is critical.

5) Vala-05.25: Of these names only ‘Tuivána’ is used later. Nonetheless the adition could be considered.

6) Vala-06: Ómar is used later, so we could add him, but I think it was by intention that the sub-chapter ends with Olorin.

Vala-07.23b: In thah way it would mean that Eru was a created power, which is not true.

Vala-07: I am okay with removing the apostrophes.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Perhaps "He was the greatest power created by Eru."

[Findegil]

Vala:
That dosn’t sound right either to me, since it would suggest that there were other creators. To be honest, I do not see the need to remove the redundance between the text and the footnote. It is not a full redundance; otherwise the footnote would useless. In the way it stands the footnote does make the message more specific.

Respectfully
Findegil