Fantasy Morality

[Herald_of_Mandos]

Originally Posted by leapofberen

My God, people...I think Tolkien would appreciate this discussion about as much as he appreciated hippies making LOTR into something other then what he originally intended. Granted, Tolkien's work is intellectual, but it is not intellectualism.

One of the biggest tragedies is approaching his works or ending his works in something other than the faerie that birthed it. We all appreciate the in depth discussion (I certainly love the finer points of Tolkien) but some of this is insane.

Originally Posted by leapofberen

To me, Middle Earth was, and is real. I think it is for all of us, in our hearts. Yet I am still holding out within the design that it really is tangible.

Right on! What makes these half-baked academic types think they have the right to say anything whatever until they've made absolutely sure that it couldn't possibly upset anybody's swarfega-dish for any reason at all? Don't they realise that just by speaking of "The Lord of the Rings" as "a novel by J.R.R Tolkien" they're dealing a vicious slap in the face to those of us who regard it as a sacred text? Why, it's like attacking the Cult of the Sonorous Enigma! It's the greatest tragedy since the Pica regime!

Of course, there are those who might try to tell you that posting on an internet forum pretty much does for suspension of disbelief in Middle-earth anyway, but then some people will say anything. Why, I've even heard there are lunatics out there who claim my beloved homeland of San Serriffe is totally fictitious! How dare they!

[leapofberen]

Exactly Mandos...Why did it take you so long to speak up? Have you been reading these posts? We have a lot of catching up to do in here!

[Herald_of_Mandos]

Originally Posted by leapofberen

Exactly Mandos...Why did it take you so long to speak up? Have you been reading these posts? We have a lot of catching up to do in here!

Well, I've been looking them over; we San Serriffeans tend to feel superficial details gets in the way of appreciation at the deeper, intuitive level, so I just don't feel the need to waste my time reading each and every post.

Talking of my culture, I wonder what people like N----n (as I'll call her to avoid conflict) would think of the dramas performed in our famous Festival of the Well-Made Play, the true meaning of which nobody in the audience comprehends? No doubt she would wish to subject them to some kind of icy academic analysis!

Not that I'm trying to pick a fight with anyone here. Just saying what I feel!

[Inziladun]

It would appear that there's an easy solution for those who don't find this thread appropriate, or worthy of their attention: simply avoid it and move on to other things.

[Bêthberry]

Inzil, I have to say that your siggie has inspired me to sit and to listen to, over and over again, the Chicago Symphony's version of the Overture and then to Karajan's version. My father loved Tannhauser but I can't remember which rendition I grew up with. Thank you so much for the remembrance. (/off topic)

I often have to laugh at the animosity of some Tolkien fans to "academic" discussion. Tolkien was himself an academic and his professional work represents a wide range of styles, from the very dry tomes of academe to the more passionate voice of the "essai." But the very foundation of his art is his love of language, of philology, and his keen interest in, as the academic Shippey has it, the "asterisk" poem/word/source, which haunts our interest and whets our curiosity to uncover more. This was, indeed, the very nature of Tolkien's own passion and it is the rare fan who doesn't share this.

There is, indeed, a great number of tum tum trees which Tolkien bemoaned (out of respect for all I refuse to give a footnote for that allusion), but by and large he had great respect for those who loved the tower. Most of us here, I believe, are those. One can love the tower and still want to discover the asterisk word.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

It would appear that there's an easy solution for those who don't find this thread appropriate, or worthy of their attention: simply avoid it and move on to other things.

How absurd! Imagine if everyone had that kind of laissez faire attitude!

It is absolutely necessary for posters to voice their distaste for a certain topic, or the manner in which a topic is being discussed. Without people wasting immense amounts of time harping on inconsequential points, Internet forums would cease to exist.

And I, for one, will not be held responsible for the destruction of the Internet!

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

How absurd! Imagine if everyone had that kind of laissez faire attitude!

It is absolutely necessary for posters to voice their distaste for a certain topic, or the manner in which a topic is being discussed. Without people wasting immense amounts of time harping on inconsequential points, Internet forums would cease to exist.

And I, for one, will not be held responsible for the destruction of the Internet!

I'm not sure the threat to Barrow Downs is all that severe. I'm not sure, but I think you have to throw the server into a volcano.

Perhaps a really big flood would do.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Inzil, I have to say that your siggie has inspired me to sit and to listen to, over and over again, the Chicago Symphony's version of the Overture and then to Karajan's version. My father loved Tannhauser but I can't remember which rendition I grew up with. Thank you so much for the remembrance. (/off topic)

I'm glad it gave you fond memories. The Tannhäuser Overture is one of my favourite pieces, and that particular performance is absolutely stunning. With no hyperbole, it seems that, especially in the last few minutes of the second part, one can hear dim echoes of Heaven.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I often have to laugh at the animosity of some Tolkien fans to "academic" discussion. Tolkien was himself an academic and his professional work represents a wide range of styles, from the very dry tomes of academe to the more passionate voice of the "essai." But the very foundation of his art is his love of language, of philology, and his keen interest in, as the academic Shippey has it, the "asterisk" poem/word/source, which haunts our interest and whets our curiosity to uncover more. This was, indeed, the very nature of Tolkien's own passion and it is the rare fan who doesn't share this.

Well put. If we here were all adverse to such discussions, this forum might be a boring place indeed. Occasionally I run up on topics I don't find very interesting, but the thing to do there is to ignore them, and find one of the myriad threads that does get my attention.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Without people wasting immense amounts of time harping on inconsequential points, Internet forums would cease to exist.

Ah, there are so many fora that in my opinion have no business existing. But for the sake of the Downs, I guess they have to be allowed room as well.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by blantyr

Dakêsîntrah might stand as an example, with his interest in world mythology and comparative religion coloring his posts. To the extent that my interests and studies don't overlap his, my interest in and understanding of Tolkien are going to focus on different aspects and ideas. While Dakêsîntrah and I might plausibly be unusual or extreme cases, I'd suggest we all bring something of ourselves into what we find in Middle Earth.

Indeed we do. Some of us, for example, may allow the fact that we actually know something about mythology and comparative religion to colour our responses to someone whose endless posting regarding the same is riddled with leaps of logic and demonstrable factual errors. Or we may allow a certain impatience to show in our reactions to what perhaps looks like to us like an act of complete self-indulgence. Just being ourselves, blantyr.

Originally Posted by blantyr

There is not so much difference "between saying your opinions should be above question, and maintaining you're always right," however I assert neither.

Then you're fine with your ideas, like Dak's before you, being open to debate just like everyone else's? An excellent start.