The Hobbit - Chapter 2 - An inquiry - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 08-08-2011, 03:34 PM

There is the expression "do yourself a mischief" meaning injure or harm yourself.
Not all phrases are well documented. My mother used to call the little triangular patches of grass at a fork in a lane "god cakes". I tried to look it up and it took a while - I began to think it was a "motherism" but I then found there was a little triangular local pastry in her native Warwickshire called a god-cake ,,, but it took a bit of digging and even then the only refs so far are in a cookery blog and a Leaminton Parish magazine...

Inziladun · 08-08-2011, 07:56 PM

I don't see the issue here.

One of the definitions of the word mischief is "harm or trouble, especially as a result of an agent or cause". I think that is entirely in line with the intention of the sentence, saying "Trolls purses are the trouble". I think Tolkien just used what to us appears to be an unconventional manner of speaking (as he does through much of his works!), though it's entirely clear and correct from a grammatical view.

Nerwen · 08-08-2011, 09:49 PM

Oh, right, I didn't get the point of your enquiry.

What the others have said: literally the phrase is just a more colourful way of saying: "...are the harm or trouble." But I'd say Mith is also right that it's really a euphemism for "...are the devil" (which you probably wouldn't be allowed to say in a kid's book of that time).

And it *is* an actual, documented expression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Concise Oxford

mischief 5. a person or thing responsible for harm or annoyance ("that loose connection is the mischief").

Mithalwen · 08-09-2011, 02:18 AM

Well done Nerwen ...there in perhaps the most obvious place all the time... I wonder if it was one of "his" definitions though I have a vague idea Tolkien worked on a different part of the alphabet at the OED...

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 08-11-2011, 02:36 PM

Strangely enough, this exact line is quoted by Tom Shippey as an example of Tolkien's 'of course...' style of narration in The Hobbit. I should have checked my old 1950s Concise Oxford: these modern dictionaries are poor efforts.

08-08-2011, 03:34 PM	#1
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	There is the expression "do yourself a mischief" meaning injure or harm yourself. Not all phrases are well documented. My mother used to call the little triangular patches of grass at a fork in a lane "god cakes". I tried to look it up and it took a while - I began to think it was a "motherism" but I then found there was a little triangular local pastry in her native Warwickshire called a god-cake ,,, but it took a bit of digging and even then the only refs so far are in a cookery blog and a Leaminton Parish magazine... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-08-2011, 07:56 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	I don't see the issue here. One of the definitions of the word mischief is "harm or trouble, especially as a result of an agent or cause". I think that is entirely in line with the intention of the sentence, saying "Trolls purses are the trouble". I think Tolkien just used what to us appears to be an unconventional manner of speaking (as he does through much of his works!), though it's entirely clear and correct from a grammatical view. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

08-09-2011, 02:18 AM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Well done Nerwen ...there in perhaps the most obvious place all the time... I wonder if it was one of "his" definitions though I have a vague idea Tolkien worked on a different part of the alphabet at the OED... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-11-2011, 02:36 PM	#5
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	Strangely enough, this exact line is quoted by Tom Shippey as an example of Tolkien's 'of course...' style of narration in The Hobbit. I should have checked my old 1950s Concise Oxford: these modern dictionaries are poor efforts. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

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