Silmarillion - Chapter 21 - Of Túrin Turambar

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by G55

But I think the biggest "if" of all is, "if Turin could understand his own heart and the hearts of others..."

This! (I wish I could rep you for your first two posts on this thread - that's a lot of great insights there, but this is the best.)

Originally Posted by G55

He said himself that he casts a shadow wherever he goes, but, sadly, his solution is not to distance himself from others to avoid helping Morgoth, but rather to assume a fake identity.

I'm actually not sure distancing himself from others would have been a solution - I rather think he distanced himself from others too much for his own good (not spatially but emotionally). I've always found that verse in the Lay of the Children of Húrin that speaks of "the sundering sorrow that seared his youth" very touching, and in a way it sums up his whole character for me.

We see in the Narn that as a child he was capable of caring for others (as in his relationship with Sador), and of course he loved his family, especially his sister Lalaith. But then he lost first her, then his father, and finally his mother when she sent him to Doriath, and it seems to me that he never recovered from this series of traumatic losses - like he was hurt so much that he never let anybody get as close to him again for fear of losing them too and being hurt again. He didn't even remember Nellas when Beleg mentioned her to him a few years later (a remarkable case of amnesia that has been discussed in its own thread). He was friends with Beleg and later Gwindor, and he seems to have loved Finduilas in a way, but his adult relationships with others never went so far that he would have let them question him or tried to look at himself through their eyes. His family (or rather his idealized memories of them) always mattered more to him than anybody else, and it may not be that much of an exaggeration to say they were the only people who really mattered to him - as seen in his decision to go searching for Morwen and Nienor instead of trying to save Finduilas, as Gwindor had bidden him.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

He was friends with Beleg and later Gwindor, and he seems to have loved Finduilas in a way, but his adult relationships with others never went so far that he would have let them question him or tried to look at himself through their eyes.

Maybe he loved Findilas - and not any other woman - because she reminded him of his family. They have this conversation in the Narn:

"I had a sister, Lalaith, or so I named her; and of her you put me in mind. But Lalaith was a child, a yellow flower in the green grass of spring; and had she lived she wold now, maybe, have become dimmed with grief. But you are queenly, and as a golden tree; I would I had a sister so fair."

"But you are kingly," said she, "even as the lords of the peopls of Fingolfin; I would I had a brother so valiant."

Turin's love for Finduilas can almost be described as nostalgic.

And the only other woman that ot his attention in adulthood was his own sister. Though neither knew that. But it is mentioned a number of times that something was special about the two of them (like, only Nienor could pursuade Turin to stay at home and not fight, and she felt glad only in his company).

I'm actually not sure distancing himself from others would have been a solution - I rather think he distanced himself from others too much for his own good (not spatially but emotionally).

Good point.

His family (or rather his idealized memories of them) always mattered more to him than anybody else, and it may not be that much of an exaggeration to say they were the only people who really mattered to him - as seen in his decision to go searching for Morwen and Nienor instead of trying to save Finduilas, as Gwindor had bidden him.

Well, that was part dragon work, but if he loved Finduilas more than his family, I think he would still save her. So his family comes first.

Also (I think there was a thread about it, but I can't remember), Beleg says that Turin "lived always with [his] heart and half [his] mind far away". That could very well mean that Turin lived in a world of his idealised family and a childhood that he never had.

Edit: xed with Zil and Squatter