WW: LXXXVIII - Trouble in the Misty Mountains: Game Thread

[A Little Green]

Also, Nerwen's conviction that the ongoing suspicion of her is result of evil manipulation is, while understandable, also a bit too harsh to my taste. How can you know, as an innocent?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Agh. What I meant was that because Sally wasn't an obvious Seer, the wolves must have had some reason to pick her over other possible Seers.

But that would be rather a feeble one, wouldn't it? And as I pointed out yesterDay, according to your theory, you yourself should have been the one picked, not Sally. You *voted* me, after all.

(It is also possible, of course, that they weren't going after the Seer at all - though that would be a weird thing to do - or that their reason for picking Sally was something else.)

Like what?

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also, Nerwen's conviction that the ongoing suspicion of her is result of evil manipulation is, while understandable, also a bit too harsh to my taste. How can you know, as an innocent?

Well, we *are" playing *Werewolf*, Greenie. I mean, evil manipulation it's what wolves are *supposed* to do, right? And as matter of face, though, I didn't say I *knew* this. To quote myself–

Or we could even be in one of those ill-fated madhouse villages where everyone slaughters each other with only minimal and subtle lupine encouragement. This does happen.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

But that would be rather a feeble one, wouldn't it? And as I pointed out yesterDay, according to your theory, you yourself should have been the one picked, not Sally. You *voted* me, after all.

That's true, I guess, and something I had not considered. Might be there was something else either Sally or I said to make them pick her over me - her suspicion of a second wolf, or my declaration of the innocence of another. Or might be that I was off about Sally's suspicion of you having to do with her death. Either way, we can't really know - or even find new information about it - which is why this gets, in my opinion at least, too speculative to be of any real importance.

Like what?

That is, in fact, exactly why I ended up suggesting that they thought her the most dangerous out of several possible Seers; I couldn't think of other things that would have led to the wolves picking her.

Well, we *are" playing *Werewolf*, Greenie. I mean, evil manipulation it's what wolves are *supposed* to do, right? And as matter of face, though, I didn't say I *knew* this.

Agreed on both accounts. But. Concerning your first statement - that evil manipulation is what wolves do doesn't automatically mean that it's what the suspicion of you is about. Concerning the second - I didn't talk about knowing, I talked about conviction, and semantics or not but I think there is a significant difference between the two. While not directly saying that you know you're being set up by manipulative wolves, you state it as a fact, and add the part you quoted afterwards as an alternate scenario. I think there is a notable difference between the first two quotes below and the last one:

Not only that, but the number of ordos who have allowed themselves to be manipulated into going after me...

So, who has been doing the manipulating?

compared with

Or we could even be in one of those ill-fated madhouse villages where everyone slaughters each other with only minimal and subtle lupine encouragement. This does happen.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Like what?
That is, in fact, exactly why I ended up suggesting that they thought her the most dangerous out of several possible Seers; I couldn't think of other things that would have led to the wolves picking her.

And yet, you found this sufficient reason to vote me.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Agreed on both accounts. But. Concerning your first statement - that evil manipulation is what wolves do doesn't automatically mean that it's what the suspicion of you is about. Concerning the second - I didn't talk about knowing, I talked about conviction, and semantics or not but I think there is a significant difference between the two. While not directly saying that you know you're being set up by manipulative wolves, you state it as a fact, and add the part you quoted afterwards as an alternate scenario.

And this is important to you– why?

[A Little Green]

Looking at the votes -

Inzil's voting has been really easy; in fact, he voted for the most popular candidate every Day. (And someone called Boro Mr. Agreeable?) YesterDay, though, he did make it clear he didn't suspect any of the Day's lynch candidates in earnest.

Kath, by contrast, has been an independent voter, not involved in any of the bandwaggons that have taken place. Her Day 1 vote for Sally was considered suspicious by some; I see the point though I didn't and don't really suspect her.

Nerwen - I think I have ranted enough about her Day 1 vote to last a lifetime, so I won't get into that. The latter two were both result of a Day-long back-and-forth, first with Gal, then with Legate. The second was also a self-preservation vote.

Boro - Brought up Kath as a new lynch candidate on Day 1. The latter two Days he voted for Gal and Legate. I find it hard to say much about his votes, if truth be told - I disagreed with two of them (both Kath and Legate seemed innocent to me), but his reasons were sound enough. If Nerwen is a wolf, I'd hazard a guess that Boro is, too - but until we have information, any such speculation is no valid reason for any conclusion whatsoever.

Azura - Well. There's little to say.

Laeko - I'd like a clarification for the reasons behind her Gal vote, I'm not sure I really understood them. Her votes, Gal on Day 2 and Nerwen on Day 3, were both rather conventional ones.

My look at the votes made me somewhat suspicious of Inzil and feeling no better about Nerwen. Even if those two actually are wolves, that would still leave a third. I haven't had a look yet at how those two interact together - might be there's no way they could be in it together. But if neither of them is guilty, I'll eat my hat.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And yet, you found this sufficient reason to vote me.

I did not. Alone, that would have been a ridiculously flimsy reason to vote anybody. I had other reasons to suspect you. That one only got so much space in my vote post because it was the only one I had not stated a hunderd times before alredy.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And this is important to you– why?

I elaborated because you asked. If you mean more generally - well, I found it curious that you state as a fact that the village is being manipulated against you.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I did not. Alone, that would have been a ridiculously flimsy reason to vote anybody. I had other reasons to suspect you. That one only got so much space in my vote post because it was the only one I had not stated a hunderd times before alredy.

Well, off the top of my head, the only reason I can remember is my Day One vote for Kath. And I think that's pretty thin, too, quite frankly.

I elaborated because you asked. If you mean more generally - well, I found it curious that you state as a fact that the village is being manipulated against you.

Well, it probably is. Again, this is Werewolf.

[Boromir88]

Last night I was all but convinced Inzil was a wolf, but now with the wolves needing 1 more successful lynch, I really don't know.

I was hoping to direct the wolves to Kit and Kath as sally's dreamed innocecents. So why Kit, and not Kath? And if Inzil is getting framed it's a masterful job by the wolves. Hoping I would jump on a vote against Inzil now? Still, Inzil looks highly suspect.

There's nothing we can find from Azura. And nothing we can really do other than let Azura get modfired, if he doesn't come to vote.

Laeko's posts look like there's a good grasp on people. But that vote and "so who's going to break the tie?" looks bad. And, at this point, not something I'm going to write off as a newbie misunderstanding.

I'd also like to hear some more opinions on Inzil. I'm mostly worried, Kit's death makes Inzil look worse and based on what I said yesterday, it could be to frame Inzil. And at the point, the wolves are going to be likely making kills to have the death lead to another innocent. Especially, if they were convinced that would be what it took for me to vote Inzil today, and then the 3 actual wolves could pile on.

And what about Kath then? I thought she's been assumed as an innocent for a while now, yet the wolves went for Kitanna instead.

[A Little Green]

Just to get an idea of who, why and in what context the living players voted on the past Days. Conclusions to follow.

DAY 1 VOTES
(living players bolded)

Kath – Sally

I feel she's a player that shows her mettle better under a bit of pressure. I know she's got the brains. Let's see 'em!

She also expressed, earlier in the Day, criticism of Sally's joking attitude.

Pitch – Gal
Legate – EW

Inzil – Pitch

There was the accusation of me "harping' about the guide being partly responsible for our predicament (which I mentioned in only two halfhearted IC posts). Then his interactions with Bom, followed by the sudden switching of targets to G55.

Kit – Pitch (2)
Gal – Pitch (3)
Bom – Pitch (4)

Boro – Kath

I usually can never figure out sally until she is under some good suspicion either, but a trumped up vote with the sole reason of hoping to get sally to talk, does raise a warning.

EW – Inzil
Sally – EW (2)

Nerwen – Kath (2)

I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)

No vote: Azura, Greenie, Laeko

[A Little Green]

DAY 2 VOTES

Kit – Bom

Greenie – Nerwen

In pointing out Pitch's suspicious behaviour but leaving the end with an open hmmn, she urges others to suspect Pitch without really involving herself. And indeed, she washes her hands as soon as Pitch gets votes.

Kath – Inzil

Inzil for apologising for voting Pitch. I just find that very suspicious. It's like going 'Oh silly me! Don't blame me now, will you?'

Legate – Gal
Gal – Nerwen (2)
Sally – Gal (2)

Laeko – Gal (3)

Having read the discussion, that leaves Nerwen and Galadriel. What strikes me as both hilarious and confusing simultaneously is that the two seem to have engaged in quite the argument. Now, that could potentially mean that a) neither of them is is a wolf but they suspect each other, b) one of them is and is trying to make the other one look it so as to avoid attracting attention herself, or c) both of them are and one of the werewolves is getting betrayed. c) is illogical because it's far too early in the game. This is why I decided to wait further.

Inzil – Gal (4)

I believe I could go for G55 based on what Nerwen's said, as well as the fact that she was involved in the Pitch-wagon yesterDay (along with, coincidentally, I'm sure, Bom ). It's hard for me to believe no wolves were involved with that.

Azura – Sally

because of her earlier posts

Boro – Gal (5)

Granted bandwagons can form out of nowhere, but that came after she saw the 3 votes for Pitch. And yesterday, aside from Pitch (who had already voted for her), I don't recall many supsicious reactions towards her.

And then today with just the making jokes about being a wolf. I don't get the point of doing that, and more often then not it's what always made me suspicious of Fea.

Nerwen – Gal (6)
(Couldn't find one quote of reasonable length summing up her reasons, but they were pretty much at each other's throats all Day.)

[A Little Green]

DAY 3

Greenie – Nerwen

Nothing she has said has made me change my impression of her. Additionally, Sally suspected her late on Day 2. No, I'm not saying she was dreamed of; I think it's pretty obvious that she was not. But the thing is, Sally wasn't, at least in my mind, an obviously Seer-looking Seer. So if the wolves had a few options, it seems plausible that they'd go for the possible Seer that was most likely to dream one of them the next Night.

Kath – Greenie

For such a flip floppy Nerwen vote. Either sally was an obvious Seer who the wolves were afraid would dream of NerwenWolf, or sally was not an obvious Seer. I just don't think you can have it both ways.

Legate – Nerwen (2)
Kit – Legate

Nerwen – Legate (2)

You, on the other hand, have constantly been repeating that I have been in an apparent attempt to hypnotise the village into thinking this must be the case.

It has gone past the point where I can believe it an innocent mistake.

Inzil – Legate (3)

2. Legate, who does seem to be reaching a bit to make some of his points, but has also received a vote from someone I'm not comfortable with (Kit)

Laeko – Nerwen (3)

Nerwen is seeming a bit suspicious in terms of projecting a sort of argumentative vibe, but then again, most of what I've been noticing in terms of her posts is defending herself, and when everyone's paranoid (which we all should be), that's at least somewhat understandable.

Boro – Legate (4)

But I rather think Nerwen looks pretty innocent.

Agghhh

There was also their earlier lengthy argument about whether or not Boro was being agreeable.

No vote: Azura