They Shall Not Pass!

[Mithalwen]

For the same reason Elfhelm swore in Westron when he tripped over Merry at the start of "The Ride of the Rohirrim" (unless Merry had quickly picked up enough colloquial Rohirric to understand '"dashed" tree roots...'and 'who left this blessed bag here are they trying to kill me?")...?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

For the same reason Elfhelm swore in Westron when he tripped over Merry at the start of "The Ride of the Rohirrim" (unless Merry had quickly picked up enough colloquial Rohirric to understand '"dashed" tree roots...'and 'who left this blessed bag here are they trying to kill me?")...?

No, I think it's a bit more egregious than that, Mith. Consider, Gandalf has of course been out and about among mortals for centuries, and can speak several languages fluently (including Warg ); however, to whom has the Balrog ever spoken to in the last several centuries, let alone speaking in a mannish language that was more than likely not in vogue when he went incommunicado at the end of the 1st Age? I suppose the Moria Orcs may have spoken Westron, but did the Balrog have a something akin to an Orkish Berlitz course, and did he even speak to the Orcs at all?

[Galadriel55]

It's not the language that matters, it's the meaning conveyed. And when Gandalf speaks, it is conveyed regardless of what language the listener speaks.

Think of it this way - hobbits understand Elvish songs even though they don't know Elvish. Elvish is a special language, but Gandalf is a special person.

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I don't believe Gandalf would utter anything other than "You shall not pass!" It is formal, and it is almost biblical in intonation (THOU SHALT NOT!).

Would the inconvenient fact that what he actually said was "You cannot pass" get in the way of this belief?

You do have a point about the oddity of speaking Westron to the Balrog. But for some reason I have the feeling that a creature like the Balrog would have understood Gandalf's words, no matter what language he used.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

You do have a point about the oddity of speaking Westron to the Balrog. But for some reason I have the feeling that a creature like the Balrog would have understood Gandalf's words, no matter what language he used.

I think I recall that the Valar really had no need for speech among themselves. If that's correct, maybe the same would hold true with Maiar.
Following, perhaps Gandalf was speaking more for the benefit of the Fellowship, as some said, to encourage and embolden them, than to make his intentions known to the Balrog.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I think I recall that the Valar really had no need for speech among themselves. If that's correct, maybe the same would hold true with Maiar.
Following, perhaps Gandalf was speaking more for the benefit of the Fellowship, as some said, to encourage and embolden them, than to make his intentions known to the Balrog.

Or maybe a spoken word holds more power than an unspoken one, and Gandalf would need all the power he can possibly muster, especially when he is exhausted from his previous Balrog duel.

[blantyr]

Perhaps "The two of them glared at each other" wouldn't stand up as well in the text?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Would the inconvenient fact that what he actually said was "You cannot pass" get in the way of this belief?.

Well, isn't it obvious? Tolkien made a mistake.