TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Eönwë]

Ok, let's entertain the possibility that Boro is a wolf.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What bothers me about Boro is the way he painted G55 suspicious. To me her strong reaction to Rikae's question for Lottie looked very sincere indeed (as I said already back there). So Boro's attack looked to me like a wolf noticing a possible pray who has made herself vulnerable, and jumping for it. It's hard to see evil in a game, but it felt like a malvolent intent there.

Ok, it's weird for Nog to start defending people this early, but even if we just ignore that, his next post which mentions Boro is this:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I might vote for G55 or Boro, possibly Eruhen.

Now, in this space of time, he's suddenly put G55 at the top of his suspicion list (I think I may have to make a separate post on her and Nog later), but then still hasn't re-evaluated Boro. Obviously, we know he's a wolf now, but it seems like he's trying to contrive an argument against Boro. The thing is, with his 180 on G55, I might be tempted to believe that it was an intentionally bad argument that he knew he wouldn't have to commit to, which only makes it look like there's friction between them.

In the post I mentioned before the vote-post, there's also this:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now what Greenie said about him walking away from a suspicion by ignoring it and "taking Greenie out from vote list", and what Legate said about his overall over-lenient manner are points I think merit considering as well.

Not really sure about what to do with this, but it does just seem like he's again trying to pile on more unsubstantiated arguments.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

G55 and Boro do post and they can be read - and Eruhen has said all the time he was busy - so he'll have a chance to explain him toMorrow. So I think we are making a decent decision.

Not sure how that justifies it, but ok.



Now, this post on Rikae is where it begins to get more interesting:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Inzil clearly bears the brunt of her suspicion - and the vote in the end (even and maybe importantly notwithstanding that she says she was going to vote someone else!). She suspects Eönwë somewhat (only makes one point in one post though), seems to be engaged with Lottie and is pretty nasty with G55.

And then there is this odd thing about wabbits and coyotes & liking Greenie's vote on Boro - which whatever it means seems to suggest something about Boro.

So if someone felt Rikae was a threath enough to kill her it might have been Zil, Boro, or looking at how G55 reacts to things, then her (although she should have packmates to talk sense to her not to react like that). Or then someone just wished it to look that way.

So here, while he is saying that it could be a variety of people, with the wabbit/coyote thing, it looks very much like he is implying that Boro is the innocent one.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So... if she hunted Inzil or Boro (two that would have seen most likely by what happened yesterDay), then she failed aka. the one she hunted is not a wolf.

Now it is also quite possible - and maybe even probable - that being the crafty player she was, she was not hunting any of those she suspected aloud.

Whatever the case in regards to the former, it looks fairly certain she tried to make herself look like a hunter (if she thought enough many would have gotten that Looney Tunes hint). So she was luring the wolves to try her (in case the wolves were not in her suspicions so that they dared to try it).

So here he again mentions Looney Tunes (which again subtly connects it more to Boro, considering his previous post). Then he tries to claim that she may not have even left a hint at all. So it's as if he's saying that his official position is that she didn't leave a hint, but then he's left us with the undertone that if she did, it was Boro. And he further muddies the waters:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One of the basic hunter-strategies I would think, two versions of it would be applicable here.

a) You think you know Rupert Murdoch is a wolf but you stay quiet about him. Instead you give hints you are a hunter and suspect Bill Gates a lot in the open. Now if Rupert is a wolf, he might think that is his chance to get rid of the hunter and *pow* he dies trying it in the Night.

b) You think you know Rupert Murdoch is a wolf and you want to keep him at bay during the Nights to be able to play more - so you make an open threat to him by hinting you're a hunter and suspecting him a lot. (The second one isn't probably the best tactics as it dangers the use of your gift, but people have used it as well)

Just for completeness:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I mean yes, I can say Boro could be innocent, or then Zil could be innocent, or maybe Steve because she said she will "keep an eye on him", or... Which one that ingenius hint gives us to figure out?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'll make a list of sorts before I go, but meanwhile I'd wish to hear from Eönwë and Boro to tell us which is their situation: the thoughtless overconfidence of a hindsight, or wolvery?

Despite apparently having him as his top suspect the Day before, this is the first time he directly asks Boro anything, or directly communicates with him. Seems fishy.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Boromir88: I'm suspecting him still even if he has been acting more Boroesque toDay. All this Rikae-stuff makes me doubt though. My reason says Rikae did not hunt him (why would she, after that open hinting?), but did Borowolf count on it being bluff (or was he afraid she was the seer?) or was it some others who tried to capitalise on the interpretation that we would then suspect Boro on her death (quite schemy and daring wolves then)? The way he revealed his wolfPOV, or hindsight POV, with Eönwë's suspicions on me he was only too happy to continue makes me wonder as well. If innocent he should have realised there was no way of knowing whether Bom was a wolf or an innocent beforehand on D1.

Ok, now I've revealed and he knows he's going to die at some point soon, and addresses me:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I thought it was odd G55 and you came after me with such fervour and determination (and Boro parrotting you). So I was right. You think you have that nice numbers that even if a ploy is revealed toDay there are enough confusion around that you win nicely even if this scheme of yours backfires.

Heh, I can see Boro's signature behind this... a bit distracted, not his sharp self... right.

There. Immediately Boro becomes top suspect. Completely separating them.

And mentioning this whole Night-suspicion plan... sounds like maybe they did plan it because they knew they were vocal players and would have to use it to their advantage, and so create a divide in the village on either side of them, with a false sense of competition on either side- both led by a wolf. Sounds like a bit of a risky plan though.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And on the other thought, it is possible that after G55's, Boro's and Eönwë's pre-decided effort seemed to fail (I have not seen the guys to answer my question about their accusations), Eönwë felt too much pressure (for a good reason as I think most everyone - other than the wolves - were thinking he was making himself more suspicious than me with his "case"), so he decided to go for a fake reveal without the counsel of the others...

Again, a pre-decided effort. He brings an innocent into this too, and so it may well serve the wolves better to put in a wolf among his "revenge innocents", i.e. ones that he wants to take out in return for being suspected.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

We can't afford to lose an innocent in principle, but there sure are some chances (the Acolyte might not have a kill every Night, the ranger might save someone etc.). If we lynch Eönwë toDay, we're one wolf down, and you get one more dream (I'd suggest Boro or G55) while the ranger protects you. Then we'd have a second wolf, most likely. But you can of course come forwards and reveal the falsity of Eönwë - especially if you have other good news to bring.

More in the same post, implicating both of them. Again, once he's dead, it will make it look like they're both innocents. And one will be. So why not put in your fellow to look good as well?


And there end his posts on Boro as his desperation goes to the extreme. So, what does this show? I don't know. But they definitely have a weird relationship in this game.



Also, Legate has looked pretty bad since yesterDay, and this this from Day 1:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Just for further reference - I wonder if, in case Lommy is perchance innocent and Boro is perchance Wolf, there might not be attempt to save Boro by people voting Lommy. But that shall be seen.

Depending on the level of double-bluffing involved, it could look bad for either Lommy or Boro, unless he's attaching himself to two innocents.



So yeah, rather than making me more certain of anything, looking at this has just confused me more. Draw your own conclusions, innocents.


edit: grammar

[Eönwë]

Legate and Lommy also have an intersting relationship in this game, but I don't have much time to look right now. I have an essay to do, and I might get to it after that.

[Eönwë]

Also, I don't like Shasta's fixation with the Acolyte. We don't even know that xe definitely killed Eru, and even if xe did, that doesn't make xem bad. As I said before, Eru definitely wasn't the most shining example of innocentness on Day 1, so if the calling was caused by the Acolyte, I'd be inclined to say that xe has taken the side of the village.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Also, I don't like Shasta's fixation with the Acolyte. We don't even know that xe definitely killed Eru, and even if xe did, that doesn't make xem bad. As I said before, Eru definitely wasn't the most shining example of innocentness on Day 1, so if the calling was caused by the Acolyte, I'd be inclined to say that xe has taken the side of the village.

"Don't like" it all you wish. I'm going to keep doing it. Someone has to, because apparently no one's worried that's it's not just wolves killing us but me. Therefore, while I'm still going to be looking for wolves, I'm likely going to continue pushing an Inzil lynch.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitch

That said, I must say I don't like Shasta's suggestion from yesterDay to lynch the putative Acolyte before Nog, because it would have left Nog's role, and thus the truth of Eönwë's dream, uncertain for another Day, giving the wolves time to concoct an emergency strategy, while risking to lynch an innocent instead. I can't see how that would have been helpful to anybody but the wolves.

Now I'm really getting annoyed. Apparently everything I say or do is going to be suspicious to someone. Also, Pitch, this is crap. Eonwe wasn't that suspected, there was no reason for an Eonwe-wolf to self-destruct by fake-revealing on D2. Therefore, he was legit, his dream on Nog was legit, and at the time it was very likely (to me, apparently, but not to anyone else) that there was going to, again, be a second kill on N2, which I wanted to prevent. This bit about "wolves concocting an emergency strategy" is rubbish, as evidenced by the nine votes on Nog yesterday.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

As I said before, Eru definitely wasn't the most shining example of innocentness on Day 1, so if the calling was caused by the Acolyte, I'd be inclined to say that xe has taken the side of the village.

I actually thought this was a good point. The way I see it, there are only four reasons why the Acolyte killed Eruhen.

Option A: The Acolyte is a were-bear and kills every Night. This was proved false by the lack of a kill last Night.

Option B1: The Acolyte is a type of were-bear that kills every so often and wants the village (and spies) to all die. This is possible, and the only possible option where the Acolyte is definitively evil.

Option B2: The Acolyte still kills every so often, but xe doesn't necessarily want the village to all die. Xe killed Eruhen because xe thought Eruhen was a spy, and used his "every so often" kill to take out a potential spy, but was mistaken.

Option C: The Acolyte took the role of the person xe killed, and is now an ordo.

I won't go so far as to say it's more likely that the Acolyte isn't necessarily on our side, but it's not impossible, so I'm definitely not comfortable with writing the Acolyte off as evil as a matter of course.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

While going back and looking at Legate, I found this -

Originally Posted by Legate

I actually suggest first NOT. Keep everyone (especially the WWs, therefore) in the dark until the end of the Day - or until most people really have to start voting, at least (=e.g. if people started to suspect you one Ordo heavily, Eönwë, you should stop them and reveal the person) - because if you don't say that yet, the WWs can be confused, we can possibly read more from their reactions... Nobody will kill you until the end of the Day, right, so no hurry with that.

- in regards to whether Eonwe should reveal his ordo. Now, my overall reaction to Legate is still that he seems extremely fishy, but this is actually an interesting point, and one that looks fairly innocent, actually.

The main reason it caught my eye, actually, is how Legate can post well-thought-out points like this and at the same time be as wildly off-kilter as he has been? My overall conclusion on this is while the point makes him look slightly better, the dichotomy makes him look worse.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Eonwe wasn't that suspected

Yes he was - skimming through yesterDay's posts, Zil, Legate, Greenie, Lommy, sally and myself all suspected him or had bad feelings about him at some point or the other; so it's understandable he felt under enough pressure to reveal, especially with a wolf in his bag. And looking at the conspiracy theories Nog improvised on the spot in his defense yesterDay, there's no telling what he might have come up with if given another Night to confer with his packmates. Maybe I'm overestimating the danger, but I wouldn't have wanted to risk it.