Why Sauron wants the Ring?

[Drognan]

Do we know what powers Ring provides? It's allready known that turns person invisible and greedy, it can control other rings, what else?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Drognan

Do we know what powers Ring provides? It's allready known that turns person invisible and greedy, it can control other rings, what else?

Basically, the One Ring provides the wearer with Sauron's will, or a portion of it, that enables command and control of other beings. Of course, that effect is proportional to the innate will, ability, and ambition of the possessor.

[Sarumian]

Originally Posted by Drognan

Do we know what powers Ring provides? It's allready known that turns person invisible and greedy, it can control other rings, what else?

I suppose it is able to subdue others' wills and amplify spells focusing them precisely. As such an amplifier it is possibly more powerful than the staffs of Istari. The Ring's ability to bend others to his Master's will is enormous.

I agree with what was already said but would like to add that Sauron probably suffers the loss of the Ring almost in a physical way. He is incomplete, inconsistent without it. It is like feeling ill. He can't fully recover without it. In this respect he feels similar to Gollum, Saruman or Denethor who all became the Ring's victims.

[auranabooks]

sauron wanted the ring for conquering the world and he wants it for greater power...

[JolyV]

think it's a way to secure power for him, he feels that if someone else has can be very powerful to deal

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

What people don't realize is that Sauron wants his ring back before his wife finds out he lost it. Otherwise, he's going to be sleeping on the couch for a VERY long time.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by MCRmyGirl4eva

What people don't realize is that Sauron wants his ring back before his wife finds out he lost it. Otherwise, he's going to be sleeping on the couch for a VERY long time.

Sauron's wife? That gives a whole new meaning to the "Mouth" of Sauron.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Drognan

Do we know what powers Ring provides? It's allready known that turns person invisible and greedy, it can control other rings, what else?

It enhances the innate powers of the bearer. But you basically got it all. It had the power to control the other Rings and the control the minds and know the thoughts of the wielders of the other Rings. All that is wrought or done with the other Rings he will know. Sauron could keep his power in the world and anything he built with it could not be destroyed. Elrond says, "His Ring was lost but not unmade. The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring, and while it remains they will endure." [FotR, p. 294] The Ring could not be destroyed by any craft less than Sauron's and we know when we are told of Sauron's forges that they were, "the greatest in Middle-Earth; all other power were here subdued." [RotK, p. 247]

[Ninde Lossehelin]

because with it Sauron has the power to rule everyone

[denethorthefirst]

As I understand it there are essentially two definitions of the powers of the One Ring:
a narrow one and a broad one.
Depending on the definition of its powers the One Ring was either a failure/mistake or a success.

1. Narrow Definition of the Powers of the One Ring:

The only function of the One Ring was to dominate (the bearers of) the other Rings of Power and to somehow enhance Saurons ability to dominate other wills.
If you ascribe to that definition, the Ring was essentially a failure: Elves and Dwarves never fell for the Rings and in my opinion the other 9 were never really necessary for Sauron to establish his Rule over the eastern/southern Men. The usefullness of the Nazgul is also questionable. The only useful effect of the Ring in this scenario is that it functioned as an „anchor“ after the corporeal death of the fully incarnated Sauron at the end of the Second Age and so allowed for his Re-Incarnation after a thousand years.

I really don´t like this narrow definition for the following reasons:
- It makes Sauron look rather stupid and pathetic, he gambled everything, and lost.
- The One Ring loses a lot of its mystique, menace and magic: it becomes an almost technical tool that has a very limited purpose. This also begs the question: why would the wise be tempted by it? They already have the Three, why would they need the One? To dominate the Three, which they already possess? (I know, I know, delusions of grandeur and temptations are a safety mechanism of the One Ring, but still.)
- The One Ring effectively only dominated the Nine Rings, it is therefore pretty much useless and Sauron has not that much to gain by recapturing it! He doesn't really need it.


2. Broad Definition of the Powers of the One Ring:

( See also this Thread: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10723 )

It is widely accepted and Tolkien himself stated that the One Ring made Sauron much more powerful, he even went so far as to state that after the forging of it in the Second Age Sauron was (In his person) more powerful than Morgoth (the person) at the end of the First Age.
But: in the World of Ea every Power (even the Valar!) diminishes over time, and once Power is lost or dispersed it is very difficult to get it back.
Why then was Sauron with the One Ring suddenly MORE powerful than before, even though his „dominate-the-Elves-through-Rings“-scheme utterly failed (by the „Increase in Power“ Tolkien cant mean „Dominion over other Rings“, because Sauron never did dominate the other Rings, except the Nine!)?

This extra Power has to come from somewhere!

The broad definition of the Powers of the One Ring therefore states that the Domination of the other Rings of Power was only a secondary Function of the One Ring; its primary Function was to access and control the „Morgoth Element“ in Arda, and through that control Matter.

During the Making of Arda, the Ainur (and especially the Valar) dispersed their inherent Power into the World. Melkor took that to the extreme: he poured so much of his Power into the World in order to control it that Tolkien spoke of Arda as „Morgoths Ring“; this dispersed Power of Melkor is also called „Morgoth Element“.
Tolkien wrote that Sauron chose Mordor because of Mount Doom and its magical quality; maybe the volcano was some sort of link or hotspot to the dispersed/embedded Power of Melkor. This would also explain why Sauron poured so much of his own Power into the Ring: it had to be especially powerful in order to channel and somewhat control the massive Morgoth Element. (By the way: Tolkien also wrote that gold is one of the elements that has a very large percentage of the Morgoth Element.)

This would also suit the character of Sauron: to use and ultimately usurp the dispersed Power of his former Master in such a way is an extremely selfish and unsentimental act (and Sauron was selfish, he was using Melkor in the Second Age, just as he was using him, for his own advancement, in the First Age). Sauron gambles that Melkor will never come back, because surely if he would come back he would perceive the using of his own dispersed Power by one of his servants as a an act of aggression and either demand the Ring, or force Sauron to destroy it!
Tolkien wrote that at the beginning of the Second Age Sauron thought that the Valar AND Melkor had failed; so he obviously no longer had any regard or sympathy for his former Master.

Maybe thats also how the One Ring allowed Sauron to dominate other wills: because the hroa is made of matter (and so also has a fair share of the morgoth element) the One Ring allowed him to better break the barriers of Unwill?

It could also very well be the case that it was the Forging of the One Ring (and the control of Melkors dispersed Power that went with it) in the Second Age that allowed Sauron to build his Empire in the first Place (recruit and dominate Orcs and other evil beings, magic, construction, infrastructure, etc.); this would also explain the rather large gap of 93 Years between the forging of the One Ring in II 1600 and the opening of the War between the Elves and Sauron in II 1693: before the forging Sauron maybe couldn't build a sufficient Empire/Military, but he also deemed it unnecessary for now because he wanted to subdue the Elves „peacefully“ through the Rings; after that failed, he suddenly needed a strong Military, and all his Empire-Building, arming up, etc. seemed to happen in those 93 years, and maybe it only could happen then because he was now able to manipulate Melkors dispersed Power. And while it is true that he also ruled in the Third Age, without the One Ring, his directly ruled „Empire“ during the time of the War of the Ring seems much smaller (consisting essentially only of Mordor and Dol Guldur); the Rest of his Dominion seems rather loosely organized, a Patchwork of indirectly ruled Vassals (Near and Far Harad, Umbar, Khand and the Eastern Tribes all seem more or less autonomous, swearing fealty and accepting Sauron as nominal God-King, paying tribute, etc. but still managing their own Affairs) – it seems that the Nature of Saurons Rule in the Third Age, without the One Ring, is much more „political“ than magical.

I like this broad definition because it makes the Ring much more ominous, primeval, mysterious and powerful; Sauron is a better Villain, more menacing and cunning: he really profits from the Creation of the Ring, and has a lot more to gain by recapturing it. Because of this The One Ring is also a much greater threat than in Scenario 1.
It is a link to the dispersed Power of the mightiest being in the Universe and allows the bearer, according to his own innate Power, to control and manipulate (the matter that is infused with) this dispersed Power. If you believe in this definition of the powers of the One Ring it was definitely not a failure. It enhanced Saurons own Power and Stature (maybe even to the Level of some of the Valar) and also anchored him to the material World.

(Another Question would be where the other Rings got their Power from? Do they harness the dispersed Power of other Valar? Are the three elven Rings the most powerful because they access the dispersed Power of the most powerful Valar: Manwe, Ulmo, and Aule? The „blasphemous“ nature of this sort of magic would rhyme with the rebellious and somewhat anti-valinorean character of the (exiled) Noldor. Was this the „Sales-Pitch“ of Annatar: to use the dispersed Power of the Valar to create a second, independent Valinor in Middle-Earth? Was this another Reason for the Rift between the Woodelves and the Noldor in the Second Age? (The Woodelves under Oropher maybe moved as far away from the Noldor as possible not only for political Reasons but also because they rejected this form of Magic as blasphemous, unnatural and antithetical to their Way of Life and their „Back to the Roots“-Worldview?) Was it maybe part of Saurons plan not only to dominate and corrupt the other Ringbearers but, through the One Ring and the other Rings of Power, to also corrupt and somehow transform the respective corresponding Valarian Elements? A lot of open questions … )

The only drawback is that Tolkien never explicitly confirmed this broad definition.
But then: he was often cryptic and didn't spell things out; that only adds to the mystique of the One Ring (We only know that the One Ring is very powerful, but why that is the case is a matter of Ring-Lore that even the Wise dont understand fully. And how much did the Wise really know about Melkor, his dispersed Power, the inner workings of the Ring, etc.? In the end they could only speculate just like we do!)

What do you think? In which definition do you believe and do you think the One Ring was a failure/mistake? And if it was a failure: how would Sauron have fared without it?

PS: Please excuse my English, its not my native language.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

1. Narrow Definition of the Powers of the One Ring:

The only function of the One Ring was to dominate (the bearers of) the other Rings of Power and to somehow enhance Saurons ability to dominate other wills.
If you ascribe to that definition, the Ring was essentially a failure: Elves and Dwarves never fell for the Rings and in my opinion the other 9 were never really necessary for Sauron to establish his Rule over the eastern/southern Men. The usefullness of the Nazgul is also questionable. The only useful effect of the Ring in this scenario is that it functioned as an „anchor“ after the corporeal death of the fully incarnated Sauron at the end of the Second Age and so allowed for the Re-Incarnation of his Fea after a thousand years.

Hello, denethorthefirst, and welcome to the Downs.

I would think the "narrow" view to be correct. Tolkien stated in Letters # 141:

The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty...But secretly...Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end could utterly enslave them.

So the making the Three was not Sauron's idea: he had been instructing the Elves in making first the "lesser" rings, then the Nine and the Seven. Nevertheless, since the Three were made with techniques learned from Sauron, they fell under the same net as the others.
From that passage, it seems clear that domination was the prime motive for Sauron's ring-making.
Later, in the same letter, there's this:

Eregion was captured and destroyed, and Sauron seized many Rings of Power. These he gave, for their ultimate corruption and enslavement, to those who would accept them (out of ambition or greed).

"Corruption and enslavement". Yes, Sauron already commanded his own servants, and had many willing followers among Men. But to Sauron, mere obedience was not enough. If it had been, why could he not have used his influence on the Noldor on Eregion to indice them over time to evil? No, a Sauron is much happier when his foes are made to serve him against their will.
Finally, in the same letter, Tolkien notes the inherent peril of Sauron's transfer of his power to the Ring:

This was the essential weakness he had introduced into his situation in his effort (largely unsuccessful) to enslave the Elves, and in his desire to establish a control over the minds and wills of his servants.

The largest oversight on Sauron's part was his failure to account for the perception of the Elves. I don't know that he could really be blamed for that, any more than he could necessarily have known that the Dwarves would have such an innate resistance to domination, and could not be made into wraiths.

He was certainly aware of his own fate if the Ring were ever to be taken from him forcibly or destroyed, but the odds of that happening were almost nil. Again, he can't really be too denigrated for his lack of foresight. Gandalf called him a "wise fool", and that's what he was. He saw Middle-earth as his for the taking if he made a small gamble, so he did so.

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

Another Question would be where the other Rings got their Power from?

Since the Nine and Seven had the power of invisibility, my thought is that their power was derived from Sauron. Though those rings had been a joint effort between him and the Elves, he could still have allowed some of his power to pass into them

As for the Three, they were made with the Elvish ideals of healing a preservation in mind, and those were, I think, part of the nature of all their race. Perhaps the Noldor, being especially powerful among their kindred, had enough of that sort of spiritual power collectively that it passed into the Three. That's just my guess, at the moment.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

The points that have been made here about the powers of the rings are very good and I have nothing to add to them, however I do have a theory on Sauron's world view. Sauron was strong minded and opinionated, enough for him to be incredibly closed-minded. It wouldn't be too far of a stretch to me to think that he just assumed that everyone thought the way he did. Everyone wanted power first and foremost and had no other objectives in their lives. Sauron always held the belief, like was stated before, that anyone who got their hands on his ring would immediately want to use it. After all, he didn't have a whole lot of information to go off of to suggest otherwise.

[denethorthefirst]

Hello Inziladun,

thanks for your welcome!

I have a problem with the "narrow" definition because its just so limited. Yes Sauron wanted to enslave people and directly dominate their mind, but there are only 19 rings of Power! If you follow the "narrow" definition that means a successful Sauron would enslave 19 (Leaders of) Elves ... but i dont think the rest of the Elves would follow them into domination and Saurons Rule, they would become suspicious sooner rather than later and exile or imprison their Leaders. So even IF his plan would have worked, he would only have 19, certainly powerful, enslaved Elves that he can directly dominate, but thats it, the elvish Kingdoms would still be independent from him! The second scenario ist just that much more universal and threatening.

But i like the Idea of the Three Elven Rings a a sort of National Project: all the remaining Noldor collectively pool their spiritual Power and concentrate it in the Three Rings and then entrust them to their Leaders in Order to preserve their Culture and Way of Life. Thats a cool Concept.

But maybe all this speculation is a bit too technical and beside the point ... LotR is essentially a fairy-tale and the Rings serve as a Metaphor for Power - and thats it.

[jallanite]

That is a truly excellent first post, denethorthefirst. Your English is excellent. The only oddity I note is your rendering quotations by „this” rather than by “this” or "this" or ‘this’ or 'this'.

That Elves and Dwarves never fell for the rings is a gross exaggeration. Tolkien indeed is chary in what he tells of the exact powers of the rings and the One Ring, but tells more than you indicate. His chief telling is in The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter 131, in which Tolkien writes (bolding by me):

The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. ‘change’ viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural power of a possessor – thus approaching ‘magic’, a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron (‘the Necromancer’: so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the visible world visible.

The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility. But secretly in the subterranean Fire, in his own Black Land, Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end utterly enslave them.

Sauron did not gain the three Rings only because their possessors removed them and did not use them again until the One Ring was lost to Sauron when Sauron’s finger with the Ring was cut off by Isildur, and then the One Ring vanished when Isildur was seemingly slain.

Tolkien writes of the Dwarven rings in Appendix A III DURIN’S FOLK:

For the Dwarves had proved untameable by this means. The only power over them that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things, so that if they lacked them all other good things seemed profitless, and they were filled with wrath and desire for vengeance on all who deprived them. But they were made from their beginning of a kind to resist most steadfastly any domination. Though they could be slain or broken, they could not be reduced to shadows enslaved to another will; and for the same reason their lives were not affected by any Ring to live either longer or shorter because of it.

The Rings were by some means used by the Dwarves to increase their wealth. J. R. R. Tolkien writes in “The Rings of Power and the Third Age”, the last essay by him in the published Silmarillion, in a passage mentioning Sauron’s rings: “It is said that the foundation of each of the Seven Hoards of the Dwarf-kings of old was a golden ring”. Tolkien also relates of the Dwarf-king Thrór and his Ring in Appendix A III DURIN’S FOLK:

Years afterwards Thrór, now old, poor, and desperate, gave to his son Thráin the one great treasure he still possessed, the last of the Seven Rings, and then he went away with one old companion only, called Nár. Of the Ring he said to Thráin at their parting:

‘This may prove the foundation of a new fortune for you yet, though that seems unlikely. But it needs gold to breed gold.’

Tolkien also notes, through Gandalf, in the chapter “The Shadow of the Past” in Fellowship, that the One Ring is practically indestructible and cannot be harmed by heat sufficient to melt ordinary gold. But lesser heat will make visible an inscription engraved on the One Ring and the flames of Mount Doom where the Ring was forged would be sufficient to destroy the Ring.

The visionary scenes which Frodo sees from Amon Hen appear to be in part derived from Frodo’s increased Ring-induced sensitivity. That also puts Frodo in peril when Sauron almost sees him because Frodo is wearing the Ring. Fortunately this increased sensitivity also allows Gandalf to warn Frodo, I presume through connection to the lesser Ring Narya which the tale later reveals Gandalf has been secretly wearing all the time.

Tolkien also implies that Sam’s telepathic connection to the nearby Orcs is through the power of the Ring which Sam is wearing. When Sam encountered an Orc in the Tower of Cirith Ungol and grabbed the Ring, Sam appeared to the Orc as a powerful warrior cloaked in shadow holding “some nameless menace of power and doom.” When Gollum first attacks Frodo on Mount Doom, Sam sees Frodo as a vision of “a figure robed in white… [and] it held a wheel of fire.”

Tolkien then writes:

Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice.

‘Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.’

The crouching shape backed away, terror in its blinking eyes, and yet at the same time insatiable desire.

This is seen by many readers, including myself, as a Ring-backed potential curse of Gollum which Gollum then brings on himself when he attacks Frodo again.

In short the tale and Tolkien’s comments on it show various powers ascribed to the One Ring beyond the compass of your narrow definition. Tolkien writes openly that the Ruling Ring could control the power of the other Rings so that “its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end utterly enslave them.”

During Sauron’s first reign as Ring Lord the Elves escaped being controlled by the One Ring only by avoiding all use of the three Lesser Rings. Sauron only dominates the Elven Rings by your trick of counting not using at all as dominating. I don’t count avoiding entirely as being the same as dominating. At the same time it is clear that Sauron could not use the Dwarves as supernatural wraiths, but it seems that seven Dwarf kings were at his beck and call, perhaps along with much of their people who would not mostly be aware that their kings had become puppets. Think of Théoden before he was cured by Gandalf, only far more dominated.

[Mithalwen]

If the three were somehow "pirating" the power of the Valar then it it might be significant that those who actually wielded them had particular connection with the Valar: Círdan ever obedient to his task to wait and serve, Gandalf the Emissary, Elrond descendent of Melian and son of Earendil, Galadriel born into the light of the trees, and pupil of Melian. Save perhaps Galadriel, I cannot imagine any of them attempting to use "stolen" power, so perhaps the Valar legitimised their use (comparable to Eru's reaction to the creation of the Dwarves) or any of their power contained in the rings was not taken but given subsequent to their creation to aid their champions in the fight against Sauron. That might be a factor in the fading expected should theOne be destroyed even though Sauron hadn't. Been involved in their making. However this is no more than conjecture though there are items such as the Elessar and the Phial that seem to have power beyond that which might be conveyed by their physical makers.

[denethorthefirst]

Hello Jallanite,

thanks for the compliments

Both definitions are a bit extreme, maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

"Tolkien also implies that Sam’s telepathic connection to the nearby Orcs is through the power of the Ring which Sam is wearing. When Sam encountered an Orc in the Tower of Cirith Ungol and grabbed the Ring, Sam appeared to the Orc as a powerful warrior cloaked in shadow holding “some nameless menace of power and doom.” When Gollum first attacks Frodo on Mount Doom, Sam sees Frodo as a vision of “a figure robed in white… [and] it held a wheel of fire.” ... In short the tale and Tolkien’s comments on it show various powers ascribed to the One Ring beyond the compass of your narrow definition."

These two examples are both covered by the narrow definition (enhancement of the ability to dominate other wills.).

Of course Sauron could theoretically dominate the three elven Rings, but he could not do so in practice because the Elves denied him the possibility; so he essentially only dominated the Nine, thats what i meant.

Tolkien clearly states that the Dwarves could not be dominated and that the rings did not work as intended; so i dont know how you come to the conclusion that the Seven Kings were somehow "puppets" during the Second Age? Quite the opposite was the case, the Dwarves fought Sauron and were still counted among the Free People.
And while its true that some Dwarves fought on Saurons side during the War of the Last Alliance, i dont think they fought "under" him (like the Orcs and Men) but more "alongside" him for political reasons maybe, or Sauron bought some dwarves as mercenaries (i dont think they gave up their religion, worship of Mahal the Maker, and accepted Sauron as God-King). The Dwarves of Durin (and maybe other western Clans as well) definitely fought on the Side of the Elves and the Dunedain. So the seven Dwarf Kings were definitely not at Saurons "beck and call"! In fact Sauron did all he could to regain the Seven Rings because they did not work on the Dwarves and he could not dominate them (he only recaptured three of them by the end of the Third Age).