The Lesser Rings

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Yet it was the 'Morgul-blade' that was almost the cause of Frodo becoming a wraith, not the Ring, though that helped the Ringwraiths to hurt him. Again, an artefact with magic of some kind wrought into it? Or just a blade which inflicted a terrible injury, but with the consequence that as a Ringbearer he would become a wraith rather than die?

There is no indication that a wound from a ‘Morgul-knife’ with pieces of the blade within would have gradually changed only a Ring bearer into a wraith. It seems to me likely enough that if the leader of the Ringwraiths had stabbed Sam, or Merry, or Pippin, or Aragorn, the same thing would have happened to that person.

The part word morgul- means ‘black magic’ (mor ‘black’ + gûl ‘evil sorcery’).

Possibly because Frodo was a Ring-bearer he had increased susceptibility to a morgûl wound. Or possibly the Ring actually helped Frodo to resist the enchantment. We are not told either way. Aragorn’s athelas helped, but some fragments of the blade had gotten in too deep for Aragorn to find them.

But a knife that was otherwise normal but inflicted a horrible wound would probably not be called ‘Morgul-’ by Gandalf, its blade would not have vanished away in the light, and Aragorn and Glorfindel both would not have been so concerned. Glorfrindel in particular refers to signs written on the surviving hilt which he doubts the others can see but which are evil.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Yet it was the 'Morgul-blade' that was almost the cause of Frodo becoming a wraith, not the Ring, though that helped the Ringwraiths to hurt him. Again, an artefact with magic of some kind wrought into it? Or just a blade which inflicted a terrible injury, but with the consequence that as a Ringbearer he would become a wraith rather than die?

Originally Posted by jallanite

There is no indication that a wound from a ‘Morgul-knife’ with pieces of the blade within would have gradually changed only a Ring bearer into a wraith. It seems to me likely enough that if the leader of the Ringwraiths had stabbed Sam, or Merry, or Pippin, or Aragorn, the same thing would have happened to that person.

The part word morgul- means ‘black magic’ (mor ‘black’ + gûl ‘evil sorcery’).

Possibly because Frodo was a Ring-bearer he had increased susceptibility to a morgûl wound. Or possibly the Ring actually helped Frodo to resist the enchantment. We are not told either way. Aragorn’s athelas helped, but some fragments of the blade had gotten in too deep for Aragorn to find them.

But a knife that was otherwise normal but inflicted a horrible wound would probably not be called ‘Morgul-’ by Gandalf, its blade would not have vanished away in the light, and Aragorn and Glorfindel both would not have been so concerned. Glorfrindel in particular refers to signs written on the surviving hilt which he doubts the others can see but which are evil.

The "Morgul-blade", I have always believed is simply called after Minas Morgul, the "capital city of the Ringwraith", so it would be the place of its making (or the place where it "comes from" in the eyes of the outside world). But of course that does not dismiss the fact that Morgul does mean "black sorcery", and of course that is where the name of Minas Morgul (or Imlad Morgul) comes from.

But yes, the essential part is correct: the blade would have made anyone a Wraith in time. We are told about the shard that remained inside Frodo for a long time, and was traveling towards his heart. But I think the Ring sped up the process. Simply put: if somebody keeps wearing the Ring for long, he starts fading. If someone is stabbed by a Morgul-Blade, he starts fading. This is just adding the two of them together.

For reference, emphasis mine:

Originally Posted by LotR, Book II, Chapter I: Many Meetings

"Elrond is a master of healing, but the weapons of our Enemy are deadly. To tell you the truth, I had very little hope; for I suspected that there was some fragment of the blade still in the closed wound. But it could not be found until last night. Then Elrond removed a splinter. It was deeply buried, and it was working inwards."
Frodo shuddered, remembering the cruel knife with notched blade that had vanished in Strider's hands. "Don't be alarmed!" said Gandalf. "It is gone now. It has been melted. And it seems that Hobbits fade very reluctantly. I have known strong warriors of the Big People who would quickly have been overcome by that splinter, which you bore for seventeen days."
"What would they have done to me?" asked Frodo. "What were the Riders trying to do?"
"They tried to pierce your heart with a Morgul-knife which remains in the wound. If they had succeeded, you would have become like they are, only weaker and under their command."

[littlemanpoet]

Makes one wonder how many weak wraiths were skulking around Mordor or elsewhere.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Makes one wonder how many weak wraiths were skulking around Mordor or elsewhere.

I am pretty sure there are several topics about it... I recall participating in at least one such discussion, if not more. But I think the Morgul-blades (especially if they were "destroyed upon use" type of weapons) were usually used only in special circumstances, against special enemies... not a thing you'd waste on everyone just to make an army of small wraiths... after all, the process of making the blades probably was not so simple...

[littlemanpoet]

Good point.

[Lalwendë]

This makes me wonder if the blade was kept for specific use upon the Ringbearer once he was found. Presumably the Ringwraiths would know that such a weapon would fade once used, so it wouldn't be whipped out just to use on any common or garden enemy?

Have we gone too far off topic yet?

[jallanite]

From The War of the Jewels (HOME 10), page 383:

In S. the word gûl (equivalent to Q ñóle) had less laudatory associations, being used mostly of secret knowledge especially such as possessed by artificers who made wonderful things; and the word became further darkened by its frequent use in the compound morgul ‘black arts’, applied to the delusory or perilous arts and knowledge derived from Morgoth.

This explanation suggests, but does not prove, that when Gandalf uses the term “Morgul-knife”, he is referring to the knife being a knife of black magic rather than to it being made in Minas Morgul. Of course Gandalf might have meant both at once.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by jallanite

From The War of the Jewels (HOME 10), page 383:

In S. the word gûl (equivalent to Q ñóle) had less laudatory associations, being used mostly of secret knowledge especially such as possessed by artificers who made wonderful things; and the word became further darkened by its frequent use in the compound morgul ‘black arts’, applied to the delusory or perilous arts and knowledge derived from Morgoth.

This explanation suggests, but does not prove, that when Gandalf uses the term “Morgul-knife”, he is referring to the knife being a knife of black magic rather than to it being made in Minas Morgul. Of course Gandalf might have meant both at once.

Of course he meant both at once, but I think only because the place name "Morgul" is derived from the word for sorcery.

Also, a sort of "technical" note, even though the HOME offers many sources and notes on background of many things, the title "Morgul-knife", as we speak of it, is used within the context of LotR, where basically the only use of the word "Morgul" is with capital "M" and it is a toponym, the name of either Imlad or Minas Morgul (and derived terms, like captain of Morgul-hosts etc.). It is pretty clear that when somebody is talking about for example "Lieutenant of Morgul", "Morgul-host" or "Morgul-road", he does not mean "Lieutenant of black sorcery" or "army of black sorcery" or even less "Road of black sorcery", but the captain of/army/road belonging to/leading to the particular place. There is no reason to think about the knives otherwise.

Of course the meaning of the word is "dark sorcery" (as one can look it up also e.g. in the short Elven dictionary in Silmarillion, no need to go as far as HOME), and of course upon hearing the name, a person who knows Elvish would get both the connections in his mind. But there is no reason for Gandalf to speak of "Morgul-knife" in front of Frodo, who, even though he knows Elvish, would probably be rather confused at hearing that. If "Morgul-knife" really meant just "knife of dark sorcery", Gandalf could say just that: "You were hit with a cursed blade," perhaps elaborating a bit on that. It would just seem a lot unlike Gandalf to use the Elvish word "morgul" so randomly (as it seems to me) instead of just saying "sorcery" (as a more easily understandable equivalent, if the situation was like you say it was), since Gandalf is not the type of person who would enjoy using complicated terms when there is no reason to use them. In other words, it is as if a doctor-Gandalf told recovered Frodo: "you are suffering from supracondylar fracture of distal humerus" instead of "you broke your arm". I believe real Gandalf would rather use the second formulation.