Who else could have aided Gondor?

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

You mean after the Council of Elrond? Before then, Denethor didn't know much about Elrond or Imladris, beyond the names.

How would those reports have reached Denethor? And would they have been as useful and timely as what he gleaned from the palantir?

Even before the Council, Elrond could have sent information. Rohan isn't that far away, and Saruman was still pretending to be an ally. A report could have been sent to the King of Rohan, with a second copy and a request to send that one on to the Steward.

Regarding the palantir, Denethor can't be using it all the time; and I'm sure that some things passed him by. We must remember that while the Arnor Stone would have been known to Elrond, he didn't necessarily know that Denethor was using it.

I'm just saying that while Elrond says a lot about his might being in wisdom not in weapons, it would have been common sense for him to regularly give valuable information to Gondor, the most effective foe of Sauron, and its ally, Rohan.

[Galadriel55]

There are a few point that must be considered here. Firstly, Elrond did not, as it seems is assumed here, know that Denethor posessed a palantir. This changes things up a bit.

Secondly, Elrond would have sent messages as much as Celeborn would have, ie he would not have. Well, possibly Elrond has more chance of that. Third Age Elves were estranged from Men (or, rather, the Men from the Elves), and there was little contact between them. Now Elrond, unlike Celeborn, welcomed travellers to Rivendell, and when he sent out scouts before the Fellowship started out he gave them messages for the rulers of the other lands - but to do so on a regular basis?

Moreover, Gondor and Rohan estranged themselves from Elves. Gondor once used to be "Elf-friendly", but looking at Boromir and Faramir's attitude they are not much better than Rohirrim now in their relationship with Elves.

And what kind of "valuable information" could he give? That the Nazgul are over Anduin? Duh. That there are dark things hiding in the wilderness around? Big deal, no news. That orcs are massing in the Misty Mountains? What use would that be to Gondor?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

There are a few point that must be considered here. Firstly, Elrond did not, as it seems is assumed here, know that Denethor posessed a palantir. This changes things up a bit.

Actually... if there was anyone in Middle-earth who would have known that Denethor possessed a palantír, it would be Elrond. As loremaster of the North, he knew of the existence of the palantíri, which was little-known in the late 3rd Age, and it would have been apparent that Minas Anor/Minas Tirith was never lost to an enemy. To presume that Denethor possessed the palantír would have been quite sensible.

Otherwise, however, what Galadrield55 says is quite reasonable. There is no reason for Elrond--or pretty much anyone else--to assume that Denethor was using the palantír. Even Gandalf only figures this out once the palantíri are brought back out of the depths of his memory by the discovery that Saruman was using the Orthanc-stone. If it was a surprise for Gandalf to discover that the Stones were still being used, it must have been unknown to Elrond as well.

Which is not to say that Elrond could not have passed on information to the Kings of Gondor in earlier times in some manner using the stones, but I would think it more likely that he passed information on "conventionally" to the Northern Dúnedain and they were the ones who relayed anything to their southern kin via the palantíri.

It also seems to me that the great distance between Rivendell and Gondor should be emphasized. Faramir Jones suggests that Rohan isn't far away--but over what roads? Travelling from Rohan to Rivendell was no easy journey for Boromir going north and it wasn't a piece of cake for the Fellowship going south. This is, after all, one of the things Tolkien does really well: convey how long--how much walking--it took to get from one distant place to another.

And this is without getting into the question of both Gondor, Rivendell, and the nations between growing insular as the age passed--an insularity which is not, of course, to be commended, but is nonetheless a fact of the story--perhaps one might even call it a sociological or psychological fact.

[Rhod the Red]

The dwarves of the Blue Mountains.

But that'd mean them giving up mining there, the Elves of the Grey Havens lending/staffing the craft there to take them to Gondor.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rhod the Red

The dwarves of the Blue Mountains.

But that'd mean them giving up mining there, the Elves of the Grey Havens lending/staffing the craft there to take them to Gondor.

That leads to a question of who would have aided Gondor. I would think any available Dwarves would have seen Erebor as a more important focus for any military action, and would have gone to Dain first.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Rhod the Red

The dwarves of the Blue Mountains.

But that'd mean them giving up mining there, the Elves of the Grey Havens lending/staffing the craft there to take them to Gondor.

Highly impractical, I fear, given the distances involved. There also were not many dwarves in the Blue Mountains so they would not have been able to provide much aid.

Also, dwarves did not fancy the sea very much and would probably not have wanted to sail there.

And then there is what Inziladun said...