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#1 | |||
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
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Elves sailed to the Undying Lands in order to find peace. Their immortality can be seen as something of a burden. In their immortal state, they inevitably become quite old (but without the rapid signs of mortal aging), so they desire to embalm (or preserve) the world around them. Unfortunately the world changes faster than they would like, and they are left feeling out of place. The Undying Lands, being the home of the immortal Ainur (Valar/Maiar), are much more conducive to the elves.
Similarly, Men would be completely out of place in the immortal lands of Aman. Men were intended to remain in Arda (incl. Middle-earth), to populate and rule it. This was part of the Divine Plan from the beginning, which is actually a major theme of Lord of the Rings: the mortal races were always intended to take over from the immortal Elves. The mortal involvement in the War of the Ring is a 'passing of the torch,' so to speak, as the immortal beings take a backseat. Elves are a limited and fading force throughout the story while the wizards are immortal Maiar disguised and constrained by the bodies of old men, sent to inspire the people - not to fight the battle for them. Towards the end of Return of the King, Gandalf explains as much. First to Aragorn: Quote:
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______ Tolkien confirms that Gimli made the trip as he addresses the nature of it in the published Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien. I think he meant the 'hearsay' bit in the book to be taken as trustworthy - for him, it was a matter of how the authors of the Red Book of Westmarch wouldn't have known firsthand. From Letter #154, Gimli's entry was by virtue of his special relationship with Legolas and Galadriel: Quote:
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...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. Last edited by Legolas; 08-09-2012 at 10:15 PM. |
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#2 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 257
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I'd say it's either an outright racist reason(anti-Human paranoia) or it's a kind of literalist Creationism reason; IE; Humans are the Third Kind, the Third Race to be created. But created in the Middle-earth continent.
They're not native to Valinor, therefore don't deserve to move to it. And of course until the dawning of the Fourth Age, Man needs to be allowed to learn his own ways, make mistakes, etc. In preparation for the Dominion of Man. So I'd say those are the two(3?) main reasons why.
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Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia Last edited by Rhod the Red; 09-01-2012 at 10:01 PM. Reason: spelling |
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#3 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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Quote:
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. Last edited by Morthoron; 09-01-2012 at 11:22 PM. |
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#4 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 257
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And has there ever been a Human minority community in Valinor? No?
Overall my reason(s) still stand. Of course it's speculative, but whatever...
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Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia |
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#5 | |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 18
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Your reason does not stand (imho).
There's a brief part in Akalabeth on this subject. I think it should answer all your questions: Quote:
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#6 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,461
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Also it ignores the fact that that the Undying Lands are thus because of those who dwell there (immortal ainur and elves) the lands themselves don't have the inherent property to make mortals immortal. Mortals can't become immortal simply by landing there anymore than jumping in the sea is going to to turn me into a fish.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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#7 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annűn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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Valinor is the place best suited to the Elves. We see how the fading in M-E affects them. In fact the reason Sauron was able to ensnare the Gwaith-i-Mirdain into the making of Rings of Power was because of this desire to almost stop time and to create Valinor in M-E. We can see it in the use that Galadriel and Elrond put their Rings to. When the power of the 3 was broken those lands faded. Is it discriminatory, sure. I, however, am not one who thinks different people are suited to have what everyone else has and have no problem with a land for the Elves. Just as Numenor was a realm for the higher Men. When I use discrimate I use it as "a distinction", not in it's pejorative connotation.
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"For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche |
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#8 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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The Valar were concerned that the Númenóreans, if allowed to taste immortality, would desire it that much more, which would lead to chronic discontentment, and then to evil. Of course, that happened anyway, though Sauron was a prime mover in that. I suppose one could argue that the mortal members of the Fellowship suffered no adverse effects in Lórien. However, they were there only a short period, and Galadriel's version of the Blessed Realm was in the end just a copy, and had to have been somewhat different from the real thing.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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