Taters to Taters

[the phantom]

I think Nog has the idea- Gollum, Denethor, Bombadil, and Thorin all showed some signs of nuttiness.

[Galadriel55]

I was very excited when I found out I have such an insane green tater.

I would have to think about it, really. Bombadil is quite nuts with all that singing, which makes me like this choice. Denethor, Gollum, and Thorin are all too true. And "insane Angband" sounds like something I would say in ME instead of "holy cow", so it makes me laugh. I suppose that Fatty Bolger was not at his sanest when he ran away from the Nazgul, starting the "FEAR! FIRE! FOES! AWAKE!" signal.

I shall have to think further.

[the phantom]

Bombadil is crazy: "The world is going to crap around me, la la la. No one knows who or what I am, hey dilly. I treat the Ring like it's a trinket, ding dillo. And I could really help on this adventure, but I'm staying here to... dance and stuff."

Denethor is crazy: "We're screwed! I'm just going to kill myself. Oh, and my son too. Duty to kingdom? Ha! I like fire better."

Thorin is crazy: "I'm going to reclaim my kingdom with the help of twelve dwarves and a hobbit. There's a dragon there, but, uh, something will... happen, I think. Anyway, we can steal from him. If he doesn't kill us. And if we can get in. And then I'll lock myself in the mountain."

Gollum is crazy: "I like my master. No, I don't, he's tricksy. But we want to destroy the Dark Lord, but no- I don't want to, because the Ring is my precious. But I hate it. Etc. etc."

All legit crazy I'd say...

[Nogrod]

Thanks phantom for giving me the stuff to comment on for my top candidates...

Originally Posted by the phantom

Bombadil is crazy: "The world is going to crap around me, la la la. No one knows who or what I am, hey dilly. I treat the Ring like it's a trinket, ding dillo. And I could really help on this adventure, but I'm staying here to... dance and stuff."

Yeah. He's the Tralla-lally guy. A perfect match in a sense. Mad, insane, deranged... even if not psychotic I'd say. But then again, being this older than the oldest living beings I doubt Eru would have given precedence to a Joker... So there must also be a wisdom of sorts there - and Gandalf seeked his advice anyway -and he wouldn't take an insane person seriously.

But well, he is crazy whatever one argues...

Denethor is crazy: "We're screwed! I'm just going to kill myself. Oh, and my son too. Duty to kingdom? Ha! I like fire better."

Denethor is deranged by the Palantir, he is insane in not letting any other information come through but building his own deranged reality, he is mad for losing his wits because of that, and psychotic in his insistence of burning also Faramir in his folly when it really takes over. No counter arguement there I can see.

Except one could say the real reason for his folly was Sauron and not him... (compare to the arguments made on Sting or Eowyn)

Thorin is crazy: "I'm going to reclaim my kingdom with the help of twelve dwarves and a hobbit. There's a dragon there, but, uh, something will... happen, I think. Anyway, we can steal from him. If he doesn't kill us. And if we can get in. And then I'll lock myself in the mountain."

Thorin clearly got deranged after gaining the dwarven treasure - and it is plain obvious he became mad in the end. Denying the offer from the elves, men and Gandalf was just insane and his insistence on it was psy: chotic to the bone...

Except one could say - like in the case of Denethor - that there was an outside factor that made him that way. In many occasions, well before gaining the treasure, Thorin was the most reasonable dwarf...

Gollum is crazy: "I like my master. No, I don't, he's tricksy. But we want to destroy the Dark Lord, but no- I don't want to, because the Ring is my precious. But I hate it. Etc. etc."

Now Gollum seems to fit it perfectly. Insane, psychotic, deranged, mad... Surely he is deranged (by the Ring), psychotic (for his insistence on having it whatever it meant), mad (for losing his wits even if Frodo offered him a chance for redemption), and insane in trying to accomplish something that could only be his own downfall (did he really think he could have become the Lord of the Rings with Sauron, Gandalf and all the others just nodding to it?).



In a way all the others were made crazy by something else: The ring made Gollum deranged, the treasure made Thorin psychotic, the Palantir made Denethor insane - but Bombadil was "mad" by himself... but then again it can be questioned whether the "Old Tom" was insane or whether it was the world around him that was mad?

I'm happy I'm not judging this round...

[Nogrod]

Fatty Bolger is one of the most sane hobbits there is fex. by not willing to take part on that really crazy adventure - and being the organizer of all things there in the beginning requires a steady and composed mind anyway. It's hard to call his kind deranged, mad or insane - or psychotic. Choosing him would be insane - haha, an argument for picking him!

Ted Sandyman and Lobelia may be baddies of some sort but they are not insane. They are just people trying to capitulate from others - normal twenty-first century people that is. Well, one could describe our time as an insane age so therefore why not?

Tar Atanamir could make it into the same slot with Ted and Lobelia, only he is not a commoner on some far-away land aside from the civilization.
but he was a greedy and "unwilling" (as they called him) to die but that I think - looking at it from a mortal POV - is no sign of being deranged or mad. Who of us wishes to die?

Angband or Mouth of Sauron insane? No. Deranged, mad, psychotic? Not either. They were working perfectly reasonably and to the point. Bad, evil, corruptive? Yes - but those are other Red Taters than "insane".

Númenor being insane, psychotic, deranged or mad? Now excuse me as a great fan of Númenor! It's the heyday of humanity! Now some of it's rulers - late in their history - might have been too full of themselves and building the path to their own undergoing, but that Númenor itself would be something like insane, well no. If you say Númenor is insane you say that Valar were psychotic creating it, or that Eru himself was deranged allowing it's creation - or that Elros was mad - or Elendil or... (pick your favourite Númenorian here)

So I really think it leaves the choices into: Gollum/Smeagol, Denethor, Tom Bombadil, and Thorin Oakenshield.

[Meneltarmacil]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I suppose that Fatty Bolger was not at his sanest when he ran away from the Nazgul, starting the "FEAR! FIRE! FOES! AWAKE!" signal.

I think running away upon seeing a Nazgul is pretty sane.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I think running away upon seeing a Nazgul is pretty sane.

Sure, but what about mumbling something along the lines of "I don't have it! I didn't do it!" at a neighbour's threshold?

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I think running away upon seeing a Nazgul is pretty sane.

I'm pretty sure wetting your trousers in fear at this point would be reasonably sane too.

I think Denethor ranks high up on this list, maybe even above Gollum. Not only did he allow himself to go mad by way of the palantir, he tried to drag his son down with him.

Everyone went a little nutty because of the ring, but it takes a real loon to lose it with the palantir.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kit

Everyone went a nutty because of the ring, but it takes a real loon to lose it with the palantir.

Fair point.

I'm off to our summer cottage with Greenie, Lommy and Aganzir and will be back on Sunday. I'll be able to PM my choices to Boro with my phone but will not probably make too kmany comments on the thread before Sunday.

See you then.

[Galadriel55]

Tar-Atanamir - he wasn't the nicest guy, but I can't say he was insane either.

Gollum/Smeagol - a bad case of schizophrenia and multiple identities. Not quite normal. I will consider him.

Denethor - quite nuts at the end. Just raving. Another one to consider.

Angband - well, saying "insane Angband" is quite funny, but it lacks the final shine to pick it.

Mouth of Sauron - insane MoS? I don't know. Seemed quite not so to me.

Ted Sandyman - insane? Him? Well maybe only a little bit. Not really enough.

Tom Bombadil - yet another one to consider. Even without the influence of the Ring he seems half cracked, and his songs can drive anyone out of their mind (which is also a good point, I suppose).

Fatty Bolger - a bit cracked when mumbling his story, but not enough to really make me pick him.

Lobelia - well poking a Ruffian twice her height with an umbrella is quite insane, but again, it's not enough to compete with the others

Numenor - perhaps I'm slow but I can't see how Numenor is insane.

Thorin Oakenshield - that one lost his wits with all that gold in his eyes. One more candidate I would consider.


So I have Thorin, Bombadil, Denethor, and Gollum as my candidates. I will narrow it down from here.

I would say that Gollum is out first, since he knows exactly what he is doing despite his multiple identities thing. He has weird manners, but his head is turned the right way, so to speak.

Now if I use the same reasoning Bombadil is out too, since beside his unusual habits he is quite sane and knows what he's doing. (But I like this one very much and it's a really close thing that I didn't pick Tom)

Between Thorin and Denethor now. They both seem to forget themselves during their moments of madness. Thorin's is caused by gold and greed, Denethor's by Sauron's influence and the palantir.

It is said that dragon's gold especially increases the greed factor, so with a stretch it could be said that Thorin had an outside influence. But with a stretch. I believe it is mostly his own ambition and greed. So if I go that way, Denethor's insanity was caused by his precarious use of the palantir and Sauron's influence. And Thorin's - through his own greed and ambition. And going from that, if it wasn't for Sauron's enchantments, Denethor would have been sane. If it wasn't for a dragon's enchantments, Thorin would have still gone mad.

So -

++THORIN OAKENSHIELD

[Boromir88]

And the first person to 2 then is....

the phantom

Congrats, the wild card Thorin pulls off the upset over the heavy contenders.