Rings of Power talk!

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Radtech51

You make very good points and I agree it may have taken more effort and time then what Gandalf was willing to put in to find the ring. Now the WK did dissolve but I'm assuming his clothing was left behind or his gauntlet if he had one? Also there are the dead mounts on the ground like you said, so it wouldn't be extremely hard for Gandalf to find the scene if he so desired it. I'd still like to believe that Gandalf did do a quick search for the ring even though it wasn't mentioned in the book, he might have even picked it up and kept it safe. I also don't think Gandalf would've spent a lot of time in searching for it ether way.

Find the spot yes, find where in the spot the ring might be no.
As for the WK leavings, we are told his cloak stays behind, and his crown. Everything else is left up to interpretation (I seem to remember Merry saying something to the effect that "There is nothing left but a crown and an empty cloak" but that is probably just the BBC version of the statement.) And even they may no longer be there (much as you like to believe that Gandalf made a cursory seach for the ring, I like to beleive the crown, and perhaps the cloak as well, would have been picked up by some loyal servant of Sauron, to be presented to Khamul (assuming that he inherits the title of "Witch King of Angmar" along with that of "Lord of the Nazgul")) But even if the armor is left behind with no hand inside it, the ring could easily fall off or out (depending on whether Gandalf thinks the WK would wear his ring under or over any mail gauntlet.)

[Radtech51]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Find the spot yes, find where in the spot the ring might be no.
As for the WK leavings, we are told his cloak stays behind, and his crown. Everything else is left up to interpretation (I seem to remember Merry saying something to the effect that "There is nothing left but a crown and an empty cloak" but that is probably just the BBC version of the statement.) And even they may no longer be there (much as you like to believe that Gandalf made a cursory seach for the ring, I like to beleive the crown, and perhaps the cloak as well, would have been picked up by some loyal servant of Sauron, to be presented to Khamul (assuming that he inherits the title of "Witch King of Angmar" along with that of "Lord of the Nazgul")) But even if the armor is left behind with no hand inside it, the ring could easily fall off or out (depending on whether Gandalf thinks the WK would wear his ring under or over any mail gauntlet.)

True, I can see the point you make about his crown being sought out by a loyal servant of Sauron. However if the enemy did go to pick up the dead WK's crown he would have undoubtedly found the Lady and the hobbit laying their next to his crown helpless and easy to slay or hack apart while they grabbed the crown, just a thought?

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Radtech51

True, I can see the point you make about his crown being sought out by a loyal servant of Sauron. However if the enemy did go to pick up the dead WK's crown he would have undoubtedly found the Lady and the hobbit laying their next to his crown helpless and easy to slay or hack apart while they grabbed the crown, just a thought?

I meant AFTER Eowyn, Merry,and Theoden had been taken away. Before then, the area is occupied by Eomer (He hears Theoden's last words, so he gets there before Theoden is completely dead). The amount of time between when Eowyn kills the WK and Eomer gets to Theoden is minimal. And given the circumstnaces, anyone seeing the battle is likey to know Eomer isn't going to simply say "someone get these three off the battlefield" and then walk away, he's going to stay there until he sees the job is being done. but AFTER they are taken in, the area is just sort of abandoned for a while (before they come back to yank the fell beast off snowmane, burn the beast, and bury the horse). THAT's when a loyal servant could decide was a good time, particualry if the sevant in question is someone like Gothmog, who is on a fell beast himself and so can simply swoop in grab the crown and fly off with minimal risk. Or just a quick Uruk-hai or Man (no offence to them, but I imagine the Oolog-hai aren't quite bright enough to see the signifcance of a crown, particualry a rather dull in color one (the WK's crown is iron, remember). And at that point there really isn't all that much defilement they can do, even if they want to. Eowyn, Merry and Theoden are gone. Snowmane (if they want to defile his body) is still buried under the beast. If a Mordorian or Angmarian made it to the spot, taking the crown and cloak would be about all they could do.

[jallanite]

There are a number of places where Tolkien tells clearly that the Nazgûl no longer possessed their rings, Sauron having taken them back. Sauron controled the Nazgûl by the rings which he held.

Gandalf explains this to Frodo in the chapter “The Shadow of the Past″:

So it is now: the Nine he [Sauron] has gathered to himself; …

For a recent discussion of this see http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthr...175#post676175 and the following posts.

[Radtech51]

Originally Posted by jallanite

There are a number of places where Tolkien tells clearly that the Nazgûl no longer possessed their rings, Sauron having taken them back. Sauron controled the Nazgûl by the rings which he held.

Gandalf explains this to Frodo in the chapter “The Shadow of the Past″:

So it is now: the Nine he [Sauron] has gathered to himself; …

For a recent discussion of this see http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthr...175#post676175 and the following posts.

Then please share your interpretation of this? Spoken at the Council of Elrond is precisely:
"The Nine the Nazgûl keep."

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Radtech51

Then please share your interpretation of this? Spoken at the Council of Elrond is precisely:
"The Nine the Nazgûl keep."

As I indicated, go to http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthr...175#post676175

That post and the following ones cover a number of quotations about the Nazgûl rings.