Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[Morsul the Dark]

Well, starting off with yesterday's result. I can't deny I'm relieved. I honestly thought Eomer was Erendil . His vote for Sally was so random based on a post with a promise to return later. I looked at everyone's lists and saw Sally on Zil's I Thought maybe zil was the dreamer revealing Sally to Eomer... apparently not the case.

I voted Sally for some suspicion but mostly that theory, which I tried to hide to protect Eomer. when the votes started coming in I hoped for an Isildur save(thankfully they must have been smarter than me.)

Now that doesn't mean I don't find Sally suspicious after all she's trying to call me out for protecting myself(kind of the point of an innocent.) I do however have no plans to vote her again at least today unless something crazy happens.

Voted fo Eomer
Eonwe
Brinn
ZIl
Sally

Brinn and Zil mention Eomer's flip-floppyness on voting as reasons I get that.
Eonwe kind of parrots their reasons.
Sally votes Eomer because the votes are too close she votes to save herself(that thing I'm supposedly evil for doing)

Now to last night's results:

Boro gone. A gifted. but which one? if I'm reading into the narration right it's Isildur? Well that stinks but it means That Elendil is still out there which would be good.

We'll have to see how this day progresses but things might be getting interesting...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Morsul

Boro gone. A gifted. but which one? if I'm reading into the narration right it's Isildur?

Yeah- that's definitely what I'm thinking.

And I seem to remember someone *ahem* being told that his idea was horrible- the idea about Isildur just going ahead and using his Gift on the Day 1 lynch, because he was probably innocent. Well... The lynch was innocent and Isildur is now dead.

Can I say it? Can I say it?

[the phantom]

Lottie and Morsul, regarding post #20- assume that Boro dreamed about Brin and then reread the post. I believe you'll see it's suddenly shouting "Kill me! Break the chain!" Hence my appeal to Shasta to tell us if things are truly that bad, or if Boro was bluffing in order to preserve the Elendil dreams.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Lottie and Morsul, regarding post #20- assume that Boro dreamed about Brin and then reread the post. I believe you'll see it's suddenly shouting "Kill me! Break the chain!" Hence my appeal to Shasta to tell us if things are truly that bad, or if Boro was bluffing in order to preserve the Elendil dreams.

I could maybe see it being Boro the Dreamer hiding the message "Brinn is innocent" and knowing Elendil would understand. I fail to see anything about 'kill me' or 'break the chain'.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lottie

I could maybe see it being Boro the Dreamer hiding the message "Brinn is innocent" and knowing Elendil would understand.

You got it, Lottie. In a post talking about dream hints to Elendil he specifically says that it would be easy to hint, just do it like this, and then declares Brin innocent.

Yesterday I think I was strongly leaning towards "innocent ploy", but during the Night I reread and I just got very uncomfortable about it, thinking he may have actually given himself away.

The "kill me, break the chain" translation- I'm saying that's what the KMs would see within his post (do you follow me?), as setting yourself up as the dreamer (and therefore the dream target the following night) would clearly put oneself at risk if the KMs opted for the chain-breaking option as opposed to the blind shot at Elendil option.

[the phantom]

But anyway- I'm not going to stress any more about it. Perhaps Boro outwitted the KMs and it was strictly a bluff (a risky one as he was Gifted, but still a very good one if it protects both Elendil and the dreams). I'll hope for that until Shasta can tell us what vision he saw.

[Eönwë]

So, who was Boro?

Originally Posted by the phantom

Perhaps Boro outwitted the KMs and it was strictly a bluff (a risky one as he was Gifted, but still a very good one if it protects both Elendil and the dreams).

Well, the only gifted I could see pulling such a ploy that could lead to dying this early would be Amandil, which I could see potential hints for at the beginning of his first post (bolding mine):

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Amandil revealing, I think, would optimize his role. Since for all intents and purposes he's an ordo, but if he dies then the next in Amandil's line (at this point it would be Elendil) would be revealed to a randomly selected ordo.

and here (boldding mine again):

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Aye Amandil saying "I saw an innocent" or "I saw a KM" would also be the same as everyone creating an Elendil list. Either way, as long as it's done uniformly and consistently, that way there is no confusion with relaying dreams to Elendil then let's go with it.

However, the fact that he didn't take it further or counter-reveal could suggest that he'd be quite worried that it'd backfire, which I would normally expect from an innocent that doesn't want to get the real gifted killed. However, since we know he's a gifted, it's possible that he was worried about getting lynched/killed himself, which would make him most likely to be either Elendil or Anarion, but Isildur is also very possible. Let's hope he's the latter. I will look into this more when I return in a few hours.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

You got it, Lottie. In a post talking about dream hints to Elendil he specifically says that it would be easy to hint, just do it like this, and then declares Brin innocent..

That's something to think about, but I wouldn't take it as a given, at this point.

x/d with phantom

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

The "kill me, break the chain" translation- I'm saying that's what the KMs would see within his post (do you follow me?), as setting yourself up as the dreamer (and therefore the dream target the following night) would clearly put oneself at risk if the KMs opted for the chain-breaking option as opposed to the blind shot at Elendil option.

Ahhhh. I thought you mean that Boro himself was actively and purposefully calling for his death, and that just made no sense.

EDIT: xed with Zil

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I could maybe see it being Boro the Dreamer hiding the message "Brinn is innocent" and knowing Elendil would understand.

Honestly, I kept wondering why Boro kept referring to me as an example in those posts. Yet, if he were the dreamer, I think he'd find a more subtle way to hint his dream. So perhaps phantom is right about him possibly bluffing? Or maybe he didn't mean anything by it.

Btw, you people post way too much. I can never keep up.

[Inziladun]

So, an ordo down and a Gifted. We don't know which Gifted, but neither do the baddies.

YesterDay, at two minutes before DL, Steve and Sally were tied with two votes, and Eomer had one (mine).

Brinn and Sally brought Eomer into the lead, and Steve put it away.

I wonder what might be the chances of Brinn, with either Sally or Steve (though probably not both) being packmates?

x/d with two phantoms and Morsul

[satansaloser2005]

Okay. Calmer now. Although, hold on. Shasta's a gifted, and Boro too? If Phantom makes three, Gal deserves a prize from me four having the best taste in gifted selection.

EDIT: x'd since #142

[Inziladun]

I find it difficult to see a Borondil putting himself out like that on Day One, whether accidentally or with intent. I like to think we still have Elendil with us.

x/d with Morsul

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I find it difficult to see a B]Borondil[/B] putting himself out like that on Day One, whether accidentally or with intent. I like to think we still have Elendil with us.

Though, if he were Elendil, his oh-so-famous post makes a whole 'nother level of sense: Elendil specifically telling his Dreamer how to tell him the role of the Dreamed.

EDIT: xed with tp.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Though, if he were Elendil, his oh-so-famous post makes a whole 'nother level of sense: Elendil specifically telling his Dreamer how to tell him the role of the Dreamed.

EDIT: xed with tp.

Not to mention, specifically telling the Dreamer who *he* is.

EDIT: xed with Zil.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Boro gone. A gifted. but which one? if I'm reading into the narration right it's Isildur?

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yeah- that's definitely what I'm thinking.

And I seem to remember someone *ahem* being told that his idea was horrible- the idea about Isildur just going ahead and using his Gift on the Day 1 lynch, because he was probably innocent. Well... The lynch was innocent and Isildur is now dead.

I did not specify which gifted it is and I am not planning to. I do not believe "drinking water" refers to either of the gifteds' gifts, and neither should you. The narration does not hint at the role, and is not supposed to - so I'm warning all of you now, before you all get crazy about some detail there and start arguing if it's Isildur or Elendil or Anarion: the story in the narration is irrelevant to Boro's role, so don't try to look for clues and hints in it.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Moddes

The narration does not hint at the role, and is not supposed to

Bleh. Since he was weaponless I assumed not the Ranger and since he drowned I figured "Isildur in the Anduin".... but apparently not.

So in other words- possibly Elendil is dead?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Sally

Shasta's a gifted, and Boro too? If Phantom makes three, Gal deserves a prize from me four having the best taste in gifted selection.

Ah, she must've based her Gifted selections on charm.

So- the KMs are probably socially awkward types.

I'm interested in debating guilt/innocence based on this premise and seeing how long it can go before things get ugly...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Inzil

I find it difficult to see a B]Borondil[/b] putting himself out like that on Day One, whether accidentally or with intent. I like to think we still have Elendil with us.

Oh, definitely. No way would he have done that as Elendil. Elendil doesn't have to do anything remotely risky. I realize there's the double-bluff angle, but given the importance of the role I don't think Boro would be one to make that particular bluff.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lottie

Though, if he were Elendil, his oh-so-famous post makes a whole 'nother level of sense: Elendil specifically telling his Dreamer how to tell him the role of the Dreamed.
....
Not to mention, specifically telling the Dreamer who *he* is.

He definitely wouldn't do that, seeing as for all Elendil knows the person he sent his first dream to was a KM. Reveal to them and game over. He'd want to avoid identification at all costs at that stage- before Amandil has gotten a chance to check his recipient.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

He definitely wouldn't do that, seeing as for all Elendil knows the person he sent his first dream to was a KM. Reveal to them and game over. He'd want to avoid identification at all costs at that stage- before Amandil has gotten a chance to check his recipient.

Fair point. Unless Borendil had somehow managed to send his first dream to Shastarion, he would have had no way of knowing - and actually, we didn't even know Shastarion was Anarion yet. I'd forgotten that bit.

EDIT: xed with Morsul and tp.

[Morsul the Dark]

I've been trying to figure out Phantom's vote.

With Phantom clearly innocent I'm wondering if he saw something we didn't... Phantom really only mentions Lottie once saying her post #57 is odd. Then goes and votes her. May have just been a day 1 throw away vote but otherwise I can't see a reason.

x'ed with Eonwe 3x

[Pomegranate]

Lottie-votes are hardly suspicious, as the two people who cast them are known innocents (Boro and phantom).

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm not saying they're suspicious. I'm wondering what they saw that was suspicious enough for a vote. Lottie looks fine to me so far but I'm wondering if I'm missing something they saw is my point.

[Morsul the Dark]

So Nerwen posts a bit discussing Phantom's plan.

A while later posts her list then mentions suspicions on me but doesn't vote me because it'd be bad to bring another candidate forward.

Ends up not voting at all.

Not much to go on rather careful and with no vote nothing to really discuss about her. the play first day was very clean. As I've said before almost too clean.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Okay. Calmer now. Although, hold on. Shasta's a gifted, and Boro too? If Phantom makes three, Gal deserves a prize from me four having the best taste in gifted selection.

EDIT: x'd since #142

highlighting mine
remind me to ask Sally in post game if this was a typo or hint...

I didn't catch this first time round don't know if anyone else noticed it...

Sorry rereading Lottie happened to notice. Maybe hindsight...20.20 thing

[Loslote]

It's been quiet for too long. Might as well get the ball rolling. From what I can tell, we've come to pretty clear consensus in favor of (or, well, in favor of lynching) Steve. Correct?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

It's been quiet for too long. Might as well get the ball rolling. From what I can tell, we've come to pretty clear consensus in favor of (or, well, in favor of lynching) Steve. Correct?

I was about to say the same thing. I was interested to see if Steve would make any effort to defend himself.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Inzil

I was about to say the same thing. I was interested to see if Steve would make any effort to defend himself.

It's interesting, I think most people have placed him as their prime lynch candidate, yet he hasn't given the slightest reaction to the possibility that he might get lynched.

[Morsul the Dark]

I'll be back before DL to vote but I'm out for a bit. See if Steve can make a compelling argument(That would meanLottie Manwe, I'd be surprised

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I was about to say the same thing. I was interested to see if Steve would make any effort to defend himself.

In what way? There aren't really any suspicions I can defend myself against. And if you really think my death will tell you a lot, then maybe it's worth it for the village.

[Inziladun]

Well, I thought you might want to address this or this.