Wizard Gone Missing

[littlemanpoet]

Yesterday I reread an old Mythlore Magazine (sponsored by the Mythopoeic Society) article about the Trickster in fantasy and myth. The author identified Gandalf, in The Hobbit, as fitting the Trickster archetype, in the following ways:

• he tricks Bilbo into joining the Dwarves as a thief
• he disappears suddenly with no explanation just before the party meets up with the Trolls
• he reappears - again with no explanation - to get the Dwarves and Bilbo out of their fix with the Trolls
• he disappears just when the Goblins capture the party
• he reappears to save them from the Goblins
• he tricks Beorn into hosting a hobbit and 13 dwarves
• he again leaves without explanation just before they enter Mirkwood

The last thing one can say about a Trickster character is that he is boring! But it's clear that Tolkien had to change, or at least explain, this kind of behavior in the context of his more serious sequel to The Hobbit.

[Rumil]

Interesting!

Also, although this was a later idea of course, Gandalf had to veil his power (as an Istari) and I guess the last thing he would have done in the Shire was turning his Istari-ness up to 11.

Note that he tweaks the dial up somewhat in front of Bilbo when B is trying to hang on to The Ring before leaving Bag End. Even Pippin notices, eventually, in Minas Tirith, that Gandalf, while appearing weaker, is really far stronger and far older (how old? wonderred Pippin) than Denethor.

Gandalf in the War of the Ring 'says many grim things', of course he does, the world is at stake here after all. But afterwards he relaxes and his lines of care disappear.

If you like, Gandalf tailors his image to suit the sitiuation and the onlooker, from the crotchety trickster at Bag End to the thoughtful and paternalistic at Dale, to the LoTR foreboding and portentous, the defiant, the renewer, etc etc. To be fair he had an awful lot of practice at dealing with the various inhabitants of Middle Earth so was no doubt quite good at it by the end of the 3rd Age.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Yesterday I reread an old Mythlore Magazine (sponsored by the Mythopoeic Society) article about the Trickster in fantasy and myth. The author identified Gandalf, in The Hobbit, as fitting the Trickster archetype, in the following ways:

• he tricks Bilbo into joining the Dwarves as a thief
• he disappears suddenly with no explanation just before the party meets up with the Trolls
• he reappears - again with no explanation - to get the Dwarves and Bilbo out of their fix with the Trolls
• he disappears just when the Goblins capture the party
• he reappears to save them from the Goblins
• he tricks Beorn into hosting a hobbit and 13 dwarves
• he again leaves without explanation just before they enter Mirkwood

The last thing one can say about a Trickster character is that he is boring! But it's clear that Tolkien had to change, or at least explain, this kind of behavior in the context of his more serious sequel to The Hobbit.

1. Gandalf doesn't completely trick Bilbo into taking the adventure. Bilbo himself agrees to go.
2. Gandalf had many things to do. I would say not that he disappeared when the trolls came into play, but that without Gandalf they soon got into trouble.
3. He does not disappear when the goblins come to capture the dwarves. He wakes up in time to fight many of, but the cave closes before he can get through to them.
4. We later learn he has left to deal with the Necromancer.

Gandalf apart from a few white lies cannot relate to the trickers in Norse Mythology. Even Odin is far more ominous character than Gandalf.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

1. Gandalf doesn't completely trick Bilbo into taking the adventure. Bilbo himself agrees to go.
2. Gandalf had many things to do. I would say not that he disappeared when the trolls came into play, but that without Gandalf they soon got into trouble.
3. He does not disappear when the goblins come to capture the dwarves. He wakes up in time to fight many of, but the cave closes before he can get through to them.
4. We later learn he has left to deal with the Necromancer.

Gandalf apart from a few white lies cannot relate to the trickers in Norse Mythology. Even Odin is far more ominous character than Gandalf.

As to:

1. It's a better trick that Gandalf gets Bilbo to agree.
2. Your first point is what Tolkien himself says, so I have no argument with it, since it does not argue successfully against Gandalf/Bladorthin as Trickster. Your second point is a quibble; he did leave, knowing that they would get in trouble without him, but he still left.
3. True, but he still surprises the Goblins by trickery.
4. "Later learn" speaks to the changes Tolkien made by the time he realized that he had drawn enough of Middle Earth into TH that he needed to rethink it all, and therefore he has the Necromancer thing going on. It's arguable that if the topic of the Necromancer comes in at the early stages, it may be a rewrite. No proof of that.

Gandalf's trickery with the Trolls is especially Tricksterish.

Of course Odin is a far more ominous Trickster than Gandalf/Bladorthin. That does not in the least remove from the category.

[Galadriel55]

In my opinion all the instances of the reader finding out later what happened with Gandalf is just as much trickery as when we know what he's up to. The trolls, goblins, Necromancer... it is all explained after the fact. Like you can explain a card trick after you show it, but it's a trick nonetheless. Sense makes?

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

As to:

1. It's a better trick that Gandalf gets Bilbo to agree.
2. Your first point is what Tolkien himself says, so I have no argument with it, since it does not argue successfully against Gandalf/Bladorthin as Trickster. Your second point is a quibble; he did leave, knowing that they would get in trouble without him, but he still left.
3. True, but he still surprises the Goblins by trickery.
4. "Later learn" speaks to the changes Tolkien made by the time he realized that he had drawn enough of Middle Earth into TH that he needed to rethink it all, and therefore he has the Necromancer thing going on. It's arguable that if the topic of the Necromancer comes in at the early stages, it may be a rewrite. No proof of that.

Gandalf's trickery with the Trolls is especially Tricksterish.

Of course Odin is a far more ominous Trickster than Gandalf/Bladorthin. That does not in the least remove from the category.

1. Even in LOTR Gandalf is not beyond using trickery or bending the truth to get his way. For instance when he tells Hama, his staff is just a walking stick.
2. I disagree it's not like he left them in a particularly dangerous situation. This is precisely why some people call him the storm crow. It's because he only returns when there is something disastrous going on.

You could be right and I have not looked into the changes Tolkien made. My first taste of the Hobbit was actually a secondary school entrance exam and by then I already knew about Gandalf. So perhaps my view on him was coloured.

[Rhod the Red]

I like the portrayal of Gandalf as the 'subtle' kind of wizard.

So the most magic he can do is 'Word of Command' to hold
fast doors, a light from his staff in night time and sometimes
produce fire (but requires wood, logically).

The hint of something powerful but hesitant and encouraging
YOU to do your bit, that's the most interesting kind of wizard.

There's only like one or two other versions of wizards/sorcerers
in fantasy and it gets overused that they lose their 'aura' as it
were. Once read a snappy response post in a You Tube clip on the matter,
like that 'Gandalf was a kick *** wizard and he didn't need regular
special effects to win the day'.

Revealing the back story, etc, I think helps in that way. Because
the non-reader watching the PJ films do ask, like on the internet,
or complain 'he doesn't do much!' Nor does it make much sense that
a 'wizard' with an array of magical powers swoops in and zaps the story
to a quick end. Like the Sonic Screwdriver in Doctor Who, combat
magic is like a 'Get Out of Jail Free card'. Lol! You can't have it much
otherwise the story moves too fast and the character has it too easy.

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I do find it interesting and somehow informative (of what, I'm not sure yet) that Gandalf is an unfallen Maiar whereas Merlin is a demon-spawn: Tolkien has scrubbed his wizard clean of all the nasty origin.

Merlin appears differently in different tales. But he is always in origin demon-spawn. That said, normally Merlin is a good wizard, not an evil wizard, a prophet, and responsible for creating the Round Table and preparing for the Quest of the Grail.

The most common story is the middle ages is that attributed to Robert de Boron. In this Merlin is fathered on a mortal woman by a devil, not just a demon, as a plot by the devils to create an anti-Christ. But the plot fails because the infant Merlin is baptized and so is immediately freed from forced evil caused by his father. Merlin is said to have knowledge of all past actions from his devil father but is given knowledge of the future from God and quite naturally, no longer forced to follow the will of the devils. Because he has been baptized Merlin is free to choose the good and does so.

Merlin prophecies the future to King Vortigern and also aids the kings Pendragon (= Aurelius Ambrosius), Uther Pendragon, and Arthur. The point of Robert de Boron’s story is that Merlin chooses to be a good wizard, despite being the son of a devil. Sequels to the Robert de Boron story continue in this way: the Vulgate Merlin, the Post-Vulgate Merlin, and the Prophecies of Merlin.

The Robert de Boron Merlin is also scrubbed clean of all the nasty origin immediately on being baptized.

(Note in a few stories mention is made of Merlin being evil, but that is not the normal account.)

I have not read the article from Mythlore mentioned by Celedur but the summary which Celedur provides is not convincing to me. Trickster stories often portray the trickster as a fool whose attempt to trick others rebounds on himself. One must first remove all trickster tales of that kind. Then it partly fits.

But basically wizards such as Merlin, Maugis of Aigremont, Väinämöinen, Viśvāmitra, Elijah, and Elisha are simply not called trickster figures in discussion of those figures, though of course they partially resemble them. Tolkien’s Gandalf is very much more like these wizards than trickster figures, particularly Merlin. Trickster figures are generally nor pictured as having miraculous powers more than the figures they sometimes deal with. Whereas the point of the other figures I have mentioned is that they have unusual supernatural power which they often use. Sometimes trickster figures have no supernatural powers.