Balrog vs 200 000 dwarves ?

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by Draugohtar

Remember that a man killed Glaurung, his own father having been easily mastered by Gothmog in single combat.

But Turin didn't kill Glaurung by fighting him in single combat. The situations aren't really comparable.

[Boromir88]

As Gandalf might say, here follows an account of general info pertaining to Balrogs...

Externally, just looking at it as a story, Balrogs are meant to be a match for the Eldar as Dragons are a match for Men. Balrogs were more than captains leading Morgoth's armies, they were his on-field commanders and highly skilled (plus powerful) combatants. They are meant as a mighty strong opponent for the greatest of the Eldar (or maiar in Gandalf's case). As Draughohtar mentions, they drive off Ungoliant, they slay Feanor, Glorfindel and Gandalf battle Balrogs. Men's "great opponent" are the Dragons. For this match to work, from a story standpoint, dragons have to be slightly less powerful than balrogs, as Men are less powerful than Elves.

Of course there are situations where any sort of 'luck' or certain circumstances can lead to a lesser opponent defeating a greater one. There are also Men who are more powerful than Elves, but in a direct comparison the greatest of the Eldar are superior to the greatest of Men, the average Eldar are greater than the average Men. I'm just talking generally here, in how Balrog, dragons, Eldar, Men...etc are presented in the story.

Now within the context of the story, Balrogs being incarnate could of course be slain and in some hypothetical scenario of "How many dwarves does it take to kill a Balrog?", of course tens of thousands could feasibly do it (that would assume the dwarves don't flee in terror from the aura of fear and power a Balrog can command). But seeing as they were Morgoth's on-field commanders, I doubt a single Balrog would take on tens of thousands of dwarves. If they were vain, reckless idiots, Morgoth wouldn't have used them as captains. They willingly seek out battle and challenge the greatest of Eldar (plus Gandalf), but they also show tactful retreat when it is necessary. They do fight pretty dirty but by no means are they reckless or cowardly.

[Galadriel55]

Thing is, it's physically impossible for anyone to fight 20,000 enemies at a time. I would say even 10 gets a bit crowded.

[Bêthberry]

But really, all it would take to kill a balrog is one Fastitocalon.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Thing is, it's physically impossible for anyone to fight 20,000 enemies at a time. I would say even 10 gets a bit crowded.

Chuck Norris could do it.

I still think this question comes down to the Dwarves having a lack of understanding of what they were dealing with, coupled with the unmanning fear surrounding the Balrog.

Consider the Nazgûl. On their own, Tolkien said they had no great power over the fearless, and by that, he meant physical power. So, one would think that the Nazgûl were capable of being destroyed like the Witch-king eventually was, if only one could summon the courage. However, it took millennia before that circumstance was reached.
Then, magnify the terror of the Nazgûl by many times, and add to it the fear of an unknown quantity with an awe-inspiring visage, and one gets a picture of what the Dwarves faced.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Chuck Norris could do it.

And the phantom could do it standing on his head.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I still think this question comes down to the Dwarves having a lack of understanding of what they were dealing with, coupled with the unmanning fear surrounding the Balrog.

I agree with this. I think the Dwarves never got a clear idea of what is Durin's Bane. And the idea of fear also - the example with Nazgul that you bring up is dead on.

But I would also add that the Balrog fights not only with physical weapons (ie swords etc), or even psychological ones (ie fear), but also with that inner "force" that you can't block with any shield or weapon. When Sauron walked out of Barad-dur wielding the Ring, he didn't suddenly have better sword-fighting skills, but he had this metaphysical power. Similarly with the Balrog. I am of the opinion that Gandalf and Balrog had a battle of wills, both at the door (duh), but mostly on the bridge. The Balrog had a power even Gandalf had a hard time resisting. What could a group of Dwarves do against it? Their power was mostly in physical weapons.

...Or I just like to imagine a metaphysical part to everything.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But I would also add that the Balrog fights not only with physical weapons (ie swords etc), or even psychological ones (ie fear), but also with that inner "force" that you can't block with any shield or weapon. When Sauron walked out of Barad-dur wielding the Ring, he didn't suddenly have better sword-fighting skills, but he had this metaphysical power. Similarly with the Balrog. I am of the opinion that Gandalf and Balrog had a battle of wills, both at the door (duh), but mostly on the bridge. The Balrog had a power even Gandalf had a hard time resisting. What could a group of Dwarves do against it? Their power was mostly in physical weapons.

I agree. If you read from before the Fellowship arrive at Moria to when Gandalf falls, it's clear that this is, for want of a better word, a supernatural type of force. It's absolutely clear from the text that Gandalf does not know the Balrog is there, and he may not even be aware of what it is when he casts his spell to attempt to bind it. What Aragorn and Gimli knew is less clear though. And Aragorn even tries to warn Gandalf off from going into Moria.

Perhaps it was known by those few who did know/guess that the Balrog might be in Moria that Gandalf was the very best placed opponent for it? And that they didn't want him to face it? After all, it was known what it did to Glorfindel in the escape from Gondolin.

Hoping to win against this Balrog with a sword is fairly hopeless though:

'Do as I say!' said Gandalf fiercely. 'Swords are no more use here. Go!'

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Perhaps it was known by those few who did know/guess that the Balrog might be in Moria that Gandalf was the very best placed opponent for it? And that they didn't want him to face it? After all, it was known what it did to Glorfindel in the escape from Gondolin.

I doubt that anyone knew that it was a Balrog, or Gandalf, of all people, would have known. Instead, Durin's Bane and Balrog seemed like two unrelated entities. Aragorn's prediction, in my eyes, was just foresight, not knowledge.