The hobbit contradictions... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-15-2013, 01:26 AM

Ahhh- but the question then is-

why did the Dwarves run away from the fight between Rocktimus Prime and Granitron?

Alcidas · 01-18-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Ahhh- but the question then is-

why did the Dwarves run away from the fight between Rocktimus Prime and Granitron?

Because they were stoned?

alatar · 10-17-2013, 10:08 AM

Twice now, when I randomly turned on HBO I was treated to the 'Escape from Goblintown' scene from AUJ (starting around the 14 hour timestamp). I saw this as a portend, calling out to me, asking that I view and make commentary. So here we go:

When Gandalf reappears when things look darkest for the dwarves, he uses some spell or other to flatten both friend and foe. Is he limited to using this spell only once an Age, as to me it might have come in handy in his later years in Moria, in Gondor, at the Black Gate...
During the second viewing, I tried to determine the number of goblins killed by Gandalf and the Dwarves. I assumed that any goblin hit with a weapon or pushed from a ledge was killed. Eventually I gave up counting. These dwarves and wizard are a killing juggernaut. If only Elrond had sent a few dwarves to Helm's Deep...
While the Company slaughters their way to the exit, I couldn't help but notice that the dwarves seem to use more swords than I'd think this race was known for. Where are all of the axes?
Why, towards the end, when the large goblin force descends on them, are they suddenly concerned? Couldn't a few simply hold a narrow passage while the others escape, and then Gandalf bring the ceiling down?
Where is this ferocity once they leave the caves and are confronted by Azog? Maybe they gave all leaving Goblintown, and so have nothing left.

Another thing that bothers me, and I mention is here as it's within this part of the movie. Bilbo, in the movie, basically steals the Ring. In the books, from memory, he stumbles upon it as Gollum has dropped it long ago and obviously didn't care enough to find it until it was needed.

Anyway, so how can I feel good about Bilbo and bad about Gollum when the former truly stole from the later?

Inziladun · 10-17-2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

While the Company slaughters their way to the exit, I couldn't help but notice that the dwarves seem to use more swords than I'd think this race was known for. Where are all of the axes?

That's something that puzzled me from the book as well. Thorin's use of Orcrist seems impractical.

We are told in FOTR that Hobbits generally were between 3 and 4 feet tall, and "not much shorter" than Dwarves. Bilbo was able to use the dagger Sting as a short sword. How could Thorin effectively use a full size sword? I'm quite a bit taller than a Dwarf (though hardly Thingol-sized), and a longsword would be a bit cumbersome for me. Also, Orcrist was made for the Noldor in Gondolin, who were pretty tall. Was Thorin trying to compensate for something?

alatar · 10-17-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That's something that puzzled me from the book as well. Thorin's use of Orcrist seems impractical.

We are told in FOTR that Hobbits generally were between 3 and 4 feet tall, and "not much shorter" than Dwarves. Bilbo was able to use the dagger Sting as a short sword. How could Thorin effectively use a full size sword? I'm quite a bit taller than a Dwarf (though hardly Thingol-sized), and a longsword would be a bit cumbersome for me. Also, Orcrist was made for the Noldor in Gondolin, who were pretty tall. Was Thorin trying to compensate for something?

Elvish blades might have the 'magical' - though I know Elves don't do magic - ability to size themselves to the beholder.

Morthoron · 10-17-2013, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

Elvish blades might have the 'magical' - though I know Elves don't do magic - ability to size themselves to the beholder.

Yes, I believe I saw that on an "as seen on TV" paid infomercial. For 29.99(USD) you get not one but two shrink-to-fit Elvish blades. Order now and you will also receive a magic ring that erases the rank order of dwarvish flatulence. Great for narrow corridors under mountains!

Juicy-Sweet · 12-21-2013, 06:40 PM

As for Gimli killing 42 orcs at Helm's Deep, I don't think it is unrealistic.

He is standing on top of a wall and the orcs are coming up on ladders having trouble defending themselves (ony one arm to parry UPWARDS, and he has to worry about balance as well). Gimli just has to bonk them on the head basically, easy-peasy.

I read a book on the conquest of Constantinople by the Turks in 1492, and the numbers seemed to fit. They reported that a wall manned with 50 men could keep 1000 invaders at bay and such,

01-15-2013, 01:26 AM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Ahhh- but the question then is- why did the Dwarves run away from the fight between Rocktimus Prime and Granitron? __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

10-17-2013, 10:08 AM	#3
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Twice now, when I randomly turned on HBO I was treated to the 'Escape from Goblintown' scene from AUJ (starting around the 14 hour timestamp). I saw this as a portend, calling out to me, asking that I view and make commentary. So here we go: When Gandalf reappears when things look darkest for the dwarves, he uses some spell or other to flatten both friend and foe. Is he limited to using this spell only once an Age, as to me it might have come in handy in his later years in Moria, in Gondor, at the Black Gate... During the second viewing, I tried to determine the number of goblins killed by Gandalf and the Dwarves. I assumed that any goblin hit with a weapon or pushed from a ledge was killed. Eventually I gave up counting. These dwarves and wizard are a killing juggernaut. If only Elrond had sent a few dwarves to Helm's Deep... While the Company slaughters their way to the exit, I couldn't help but notice that the dwarves seem to use more swords than I'd think this race was known for. Where are all of the axes? Why, towards the end, when the large goblin force descends on them, are they suddenly concerned? Couldn't a few simply hold a narrow passage while the others escape, and then Gandalf bring the ceiling down? Where is this ferocity once they leave the caves and are confronted by Azog? Maybe they gave all leaving Goblintown, and so have nothing left. Another thing that bothers me, and I mention is here as it's within this part of the movie. Bilbo, in the movie, basically steals the Ring. In the books, from memory, he stumbles upon it as Gollum has dropped it long ago and obviously didn't care enough to find it until it was needed. Anyway, so how can I feel good about Bilbo and bad about Gollum when the former truly stole from the later? __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

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12-21-2013, 06:40 PM	#7
Juicy-Sweet Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 49	As for Gimli killing 42 orcs at Helm's Deep, I don't think it is unrealistic. He is standing on top of a wall and the orcs are coming up on ladders having trouble defending themselves (ony one arm to parry UPWARDS, and he has to worry about balance as well). Gimli just has to bonk them on the head basically, easy-peasy. I read a book on the conquest of Constantinople by the Turks in 1492, and the numbers seemed to fit. They reported that a wall manned with 50 men could keep 1000 invaders at bay and such,