Beren and Lúthien - Changes needed

[Aiwendil]

Okay, I like this last suggestion. It seems that you're right: the text of the '77 suggests that the motif of Morgoth's desire for Luthien was retained, even when the particular mission of Boldog was dropped. So I think at last we have agreement here.

I have quite lost track of whether there were other unresolved issues in this chapter - glancing back over the last few posts, I don't see any. If not, I think we're done with round 2 of Beren and Luthien. I know I have notes on further issues in other completed chapters; I will dig those out, review them, and post.

[Findegil]

I also looked into the points you commented on and found 2 small issues that are not finially discussed:

BL-RG-08.5:

There countless torches fitfully
did start and twinkle, as BL-RG-08.5 {the Gnomes}[Noldor] alone
were gathered to their fading {homes}home, [1835]
and thronged the long and winding stair {1600}
that led to the wide echoing square.

You suggested to skip all 4 lines because you did not find the ryhme of alone - home god enough. We both said we would look for a better solution. Did you find any thing? For me alone - home would work, but if you would better like to skip the lines we will do.

BL-SL-07:

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Then came word {3665}
most passing strange of Lúthien [3945]
wild-wandering by wood and glen,
and Thingol's purpose long he weighed,
and wondered, thinking of that maid.
BL-SL-07 {so fair, so frail. A captain dire, {3670}
Boldog, he sent with sword and fire
to Doriath's march; but battle fell
sudden upon him: news to tell
never one returned of Boldog's host,
and Thingol humbled Morgoth's boast.} {3675}
Then his heart with doubt and wrath was burned:
new tidings of dismay he learned,

You suggested to skip Luthien in this passage. But I don't agree to this. Seeing what we have done in the case of BL-SL-05 were we even kept Morgoth diseiring Lúthien, I see no reason why we should delet his interrest here.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

Thanks for reminding me of those two unresolved points.

BL-RG-08.5: Well, I've stared at the lines again for a long while, and I still can't come up with anything. But when I suggested deleting the lines, I seem to have missed the fact that we would have to delete five lines and thus leave an unrhymed line. We might get by with:

The mists were mantled round the towers {1595}
of the Elves' white city by the sea{.},
{There countless}now lit by torches fitfully.
{did start and twinkle, as the Gnomes
were gathered to their fading homes, [1835]
and thronged the long and winding stair {1600}
that led to the wide echoing square.}

There Fëanor mourned his jewels divine,

BL-SL-07: Yes, I think you've convinced me that this element was not rejected after all. So we can leave this the way we had it.

[Findegil]

Okay. I agree to both points. It seems we are done with this chapter for the second run.

I will see that I can come up with a corrected version in private forum soon.

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.: Not too soon as it seems. I have to renumber the lines, which is a diligent but routine piece of work.

[Arvegil145]

How about this:

The Quest of the Silmaril 2

...
Thus Thingol learned that Lúthien was again fled, and that Celegorm and Curufin were driven from Nargothrond. <In that time Celebrimbor the son of Curufin repudiated the deeds of his father, and remained with Orodreth.> Then his counsel was in doubt, for he had not the strength to assail the sons of Fëanor; but he sent messengers to Himring to summon their aid in seeking for Lúthien, since Celegorm had not sent her to the house of her father, nor had he kept her safely.

I think it desirable to retain in some way the mention of Celebrimbor repenting of Curufin's deeds, since it is hard to incorporate it into the Lay itself (unless you already did that).

[Findegil]

I agree that it would be nice to mention Celebrimbor, but this position is not good. It will feel like an after thought. And it breaks the flow of the passage badly.

I would rather try to work it into the poem, when Orodreth has proclaimed the ban for the brethern:

'We will remember it,' they said,
and turned upon their heels, and sped, {80}
saddled their horses, trussed their gear, [3175]
and went with hound and bow and spear,
alone; for none of all the folk
would follow them. BL-EX-10.5 <SIL77 based on a late Note In that time revoke
Celebrimbor {the son of Curufin repudiated} the deeds of{ his father} Curufin,
his father, and no longer followed him, [3180]
but remained in Nargothrond when the brethern broke.>
Ere sunset thy rode, no{No} word they spoke,
but sounded horns, and rode away {85}
like wind at end of stormy day.

My be a bit clumsy, but probably we will find help in bettering my verses.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[Arvegil145]

Sorry, but I am a total idiot when it comes to poetry, so I want to remove myself from the poetry.

Another thing - it would be nice to introduce Angrist somehow into the tale.

And another thing, lol - wasn't it Curufin who was in lust with Lúthien in the Lay of Leithian? In the later writings it was Celegorm - in my version I simply changed Celegorm to Curufin and vice-versa.