Hobbit Trailer looks crap

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Arphen Silverhair

I think the thread title should not be so outright negative.
I really don't get the overwhelming hate you guys are reacting with here.
At least try to see the positives...

BTW have you seen this?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151697149436171

Mostly this thread is about a little humour. If you knew us, you would be able to recognise the jokes. But that's the problem with internet communication. It's also very difficult for people well versed in Tolkien's books to take a Hollywood adventure/action/gaming flick in any way as a legitimate interpretation of Tolkien. We've learnt, as Agan says, from four previous ones.

One of the things we Downers pride ourselves on, besides our knowledge of Tolkien's books, is the way we conduct discussion here. We tend to avoid simple statements of opinion and favour explanation and argument to support our positions. Sometimes we even manage to persuade each other! Or exhaust each other.

So, given that we tend to listen to each other's reasons, I want to ask you what you mean by linking to that You Tube video. What do you think it proves in terms of your argument? That others are deeply impressed? That we should follow suit also?

Simply linking to that video does little to further your point that we are full of hate. We aint'. But let my give you one possible interpretation of that video to show how it needs a bit of explanation.

It shows some fangirls giggling and excited over the trailer. And it shows three actors' response to the you tube video.

Are the fans giving any kind of argument or debate? No, they are simply going gaga over the scenes they are seeing. They seem to be thoroughly excited by what they are viewing.

Why would Jackson choose this particular video to highlight in the marketing of the second Hobbit movie? Is it a way to forestall criticism? It is a way to demonstrate who he believes his audience is? Is it a way to titilate fangirls by showing them a reaction in the actors they admire?

Why show three actors reacting to the video--and in particular, these three actors? They are all in costume, so it is not likely an unrehearsed or unscripted response, but very likely part of the publicity that the actors must engage in as part of their employment in the film. Is it a way for Jackson to suggest a Middle-earth response? Is it too cynical to regard this as a mere merchandising ploy, using fans to further the marketing strategy?

I for one could never be one of those fangirls, so the entire video does not address me as a fan of Tolkien.

Really, I'm left with the comments, if not here then from one of our recent threads, which presented two of Jackson's writing team's defense of their work: "It's in the appendices!" "It represents the spirit of Tolkien."

Those two statements beg for critical analysis, and neither one of them can bear the scrutiny for long. Critical analysis is not hate. It is the response to the films from people who know the books well.

So, tell me, why did you link to that video? Do you have another "reading" of it that would enlighten us and make us regret our initial responses to the trailer?

[mark12_30]

"We find the gold...
"We take the gold...
"And we run like there's no Manana!"

"And that's your plan?!?"

"Mm hmm."

".....well, I like it."

Well, I do like it. The trailer, I mean. Lots of reasons not to, but I'd rather be happy about it than curmudgeonize the evening away. I'm even glad to see Leggybopper back, and his redheaded sidekick isn't so bad.

Actually, she's a badass Merisuwiniel.

I think it's time I start planning my opening night costume.

[mark12_30]

Hmmm, Aiwendil, I'm not sure I disagree with you. So I shan' t think about that too hard before I sleep, perchance to dream. He's a good bowbender, anyway.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

I'd rather be happy about it than curmudgeonize the evening away.

Killjoy.

I'm even glad to see Leggybopper back, and his redheaded sidekick isn't so bad.

Actually, she's a badass Merisuwiniel.

Yes, but Merisuwyniel was intended as parody.

Still, I don't doubt the unintentional humor quotient will be high.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Alcidas

I don't think Orlando Bloom is a good actor. There, I said it.

Well, neither do I, actually, but that didn’t seem the place to mention that.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Why would Jackson choose this particular video to highlight in the marketing of the second Hobbit movie? Is it a way to forestall criticism? It is a way to demonstrate who he believes his audience is? Is it a way to titilate fangirls by showing them a reaction in the actors they admire?

Why show three actors reacting to the video--and in particular, these three actors? They are all in costume, so it is not likely an unrehearsed or unscripted response, but very likely part of the publicity that the actors must engage in as part of their employment in the film. Is it a way for Jackson to suggest a Middle-earth response? Is it too cynical to regard this as a mere merchandising ploy, using fans to further the marketing strategy?

Well, if we feel like being really charitable we might suppose that Jackson was for some reason so touched by the decision of the girls to film themselves giggling over the trailer that he shot the response as a purely friendly gesture, with no ulterior motive whatever– but you wouldn’t think he’d have the leisure for that kind of thing right now. And it’s a characteristic of modern marketing to make a lot of use of “spontaneous fan reactions” (whether real or not is largely irrelevant).

So... if we assume there’s a point to this, then what is it? It really seems like the basic messages are, “here’s some people getting excited, so you should too”, plus, “look, even YOU, the ordinary fan, can be a part of this!"

Note the responses on the page:

Watching people that are watching people.... this could go on and on, and on, and on, and on,..... well you get the point. Now those girls need to post another video of themselves watching the cast watching them watching the trailer.

i want to see a reaction video to them watching the cast reaction video of their trailer reaction video!...

.........those fans will be in heaven on earth after seeing the actors watching their responses to them in the trailer!

etc, etc.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, if we feel like being really charitable we might suppose that Jackson was for some reason so touched by the decision of the girls to film themselves giggling over the trailer that he shot the response as a purely friendly gesture, with no ulterior motive whatever– but you wouldn’t think he’d have the leisure for that kind of thing right now.

Well, he did make a video with him, John Howe, and Alan Lee for the Tolkien Society's Return of the Ring con last summer, meant to welcome us to the event.

[Tidesson]

Well, this is what happens when you opt to put a long book story into major feature films. In my opinion, it may have been better if PJ opted to make The Hobbit - even LOTR - into a miniseries. Or perhaps in George R.R. Martin's "Game of Thrones" format on HBO.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Tidesson

In my opinion, it may have been better if PJ opted to make The Hobbit - even LOTR - into a miniseries. Or perhaps in George R.R. Martin's "Game of Thrones" format on HBO.

I couldn't agree more.

Just thinking about it: the LotR in six seasons (one season per book) where one season would be ten times one hour episodes!

And well, a decent director would have been needed as well...

Or to go into a full phantasy mode then: let's see the stories of Silmarillion as series - with six seasons one would get... oh, only in my dreams...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Tidesson

Well, this is what happens when you opt to put a long book story into major feature films. In my opinion, it may have been better if PJ opted to make The Hobbit - even LOTR - into a miniseries. Or perhaps in George R.R. Martin's "Game of Thrones" format on HBO.

Forgive me as I might be getting old and my memory may be faulty, but wasn't The Hobbit a short little book that could have nicely been done in one movie? No need for a miniseries of it.

Originally Posted by Noggie

They probably even know it - but consider those people a marginal matter compared to their views of the more desired audiences.
. . . .
If you just check what kind of films are the blockbusters and bring in the most revenue... Now there sure are exceptions to that, but they are insecure aka. they can't be predicted. So when you are basically just making money (instead of art) you take the more safer road and rely on action and advertising.

See, the real problem is that those "desired audiences" just have way too much disposable income compared to the rest of us.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I know many people differ on how they see the LotR-trilogy here. But many of even those who kind of liked the LotR by PJ are now facing a new situation when the Hobbit seems to be nothing more than yet one more "Avengers" or "Spider Man" or "Star Trek": an exploitation of older popular material built to maximise the income of the studios by following the lowest common denominators of their marketing department's imagined teen-age audiences.

And when they didn't make superhero/fantasy movies they were neglecting the geek demographic... There is no pleasing some people.

Obviously the "exploitation" element is getting stronger and stronger, more and more of the studios budgets go into these kind of films and so the artistic control is limited, which is regrettable. However I am very pleased these kind of movies are getting made...

And now onto the trailer...

It looks awesome!

It does not look like the hobbit though.

However, I will quite happily sit and watch PJ's fanfiction, be entertained, and supplied with plenty of ammunition to shoot down people who dare see it as an actual adaptation of the book.

I do agree that it is infuriating, how PJ feels the need to go overboard with CGI and weird action sequences. He must be compensating for something. ..

[Alcidas]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I do agree that it is infuriating, how PJ feels the need to go overboard with CGI and weird action sequences. He must be compensating for something. ..

A choice between lots of CGI and weird action sequences that millions of people will flock to watch, or a faithful adaptation of Tolkien's work that a handful of fans who post on the Barrow-Downs will applaud? Wonder why he went for the former?

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

I'm probably only going to watch it because:

1. Gandalf
2. Legolas
3. Thranduil
4. Martin Freeman (Yes, not Bilbo, Martin Freeman)
5. Benedict Cumberbatch's VOICE!! (Seriously, that man can give Alan Rickman a run for his money.)

The only way that this movie can get any better actor-wise is if they added Tom Hiddleston.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

"

".....well, I like it."

Well, I do like it. The trailer, I mean. Lots of reasons not to, but I'd rather be happy about it than curmudgeonize the evening away. I'm even glad to see Leggybopper back, and his redheaded sidekick isn't so bad.

Actually, she's a badass Merisuwiniel.

I think it's time I start planning my opening night costume.

Oh dear. Helen, I remember a certain balrog's eyeliner that got your fancy.

[quote=Kuru]
Still, I don't doubt the unintentional humor quotient will be high. [quote]

There has to be some recompense for seeing it.

[Arphen Silverhair]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Mostly this thread is about a little humour. If you knew us, you would be able to recognise the jokes. But that's the problem with internet communication. It's also very difficult for people well versed in Tolkien's books to take a Hollywood adventure/action/gaming flick in any way as a legitimate interpretation of Tolkien. We've learnt, as Agan says, from four previous ones.

One of the things we Downers pride ourselves on, besides our knowledge of Tolkien's books, is the way we conduct discussion here. We tend to avoid simple statements of opinion and favour explanation and argument to support our positions. Sometimes we even manage to persuade each other! Or exhaust each other.

So, given that we tend to listen to each other's reasons, I want to ask you what you mean by linking to that You Tube video. What do you think it proves in terms of your argument? That others are deeply impressed? That we should follow suit also?

Simply linking to that video does little to further your point that we are full of hate. We aint'. But let my give you one possible interpretation of that video to show how it needs a bit of explanation.

It shows some fangirls giggling and excited over the trailer. And it shows three actors' response to the you tube video.

Are the fans giving any kind of argument or debate? No, they are simply going gaga over the scenes they are seeing. They seem to be thoroughly excited by what they are viewing.

Why would Jackson choose this particular video to highlight in the marketing of the second Hobbit movie? Is it a way to forestall criticism? It is a way to demonstrate who he believes his audience is? Is it a way to titilate fangirls by showing them a reaction in the actors they admire?

Why show three actors reacting to the video--and in particular, these three actors? They are all in costume, so it is not likely an unrehearsed or unscripted response, but very likely part of the publicity that the actors must engage in as part of their employment in the film. Is it a way for Jackson to suggest a Middle-earth response? Is it too cynical to regard this as a mere merchandising ploy, using fans to further the marketing strategy?

I for one could never be one of those fangirls, so the entire video does not address me as a fan of Tolkien.

Really, I'm left with the comments, if not here then from one of our recent threads, which presented two of Jackson's writing team's defense of their work: "It's in the appendices!" "It represents the spirit of Tolkien."

Those two statements beg for critical analysis, and neither one of them can bear the scrutiny for long. Critical analysis is not hate. It is the response to the films from people who know the books well.

So, tell me, why did you link to that video? Do you have another "reading" of it that would enlighten us and make us regret our initial responses to the trailer?

Me linking that Video had nothing to do with my or your opinion about the Trailer. I just thought that it was somehow sweet to see these three elves watching those hilarious, giggling girls, because I've never seen that kind of "official" video response.
Although it certainly is some form of marketing.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Arphen Silverhair

it was somehow sweet to see these three elves watching those hilarious, giggling girls, because I've never seen that kind of "official" video response.
Although it certainly is some form of marketing.

They have just been fast copying the format from the Game of Thrones who (or whose fans - I think we don't khow how far HBO-organized the initial video was) published videos of fan-reactions to the "Red wedding" - anyway then George Martin appeared on Conan's TV-show and watched the fan reactions.

Pretty much the same idea...

[Alcidas]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

They have just been fast copying the format from the Game of Thrones who (or whose fans - I think we don't khow how far HBO-organized the initial video was) published videos of fan-reactions to the "Red wedding" - anyway then George Martin appeared on Conan's TV-show and watched the fan reactions.

Pretty much the same idea...

Hmm. So its a staged video of Orlando Bloom and his co-stars, all dressed as elves, watching a staged video of a couple of fangals giggling while they watch some footage?

I suppose you can say that it is 'somehow sweet'. Like having seven spoons of sugar in your tea.

[Mithalwen]

Maybe merely demonstrating a ' mise en abyme" (literal translation not really helpful but a cultural version of the laughing cow cheesebox). Given that some advertisements are made to seem like youtube amateur efforts now it may not be surprising that this has been latched on to. My sister went to the opening ceremony of the Olympic games last year and a few weeks before she got an email from Danny Boyle saying that he would have wished his father to be at the games and inviting attendees to email picture of someone who they wouldmhave liked to have been there. So my late father was one of those shown in the memorial section. And that was touching. But Boyle wasn't selling something in the same way.

[Alcidas]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

...merely demonstrating a ' mise en abyme"...

Yes, I do agree that it is pretty abysmal...

[Mithalwen]

Well the literal meaning is pretty much the Gandalfian cast into an abyss...

[mark12_30]

Bethberry, I'm deeply touched that you remember my fascination with Roggie' s flameproof eyeliner. But I would never have noticed it but for the guidance of Lush the Cold and Fair. I will be curious to see whether whether Smaug and Roggie share makeup artists.

As a child I entertained myself by the hour singing: Puff a dwagon wiv by a sea an frolic inna Au'um miss.

There, Tauriel, beat that. Action smaction, let's all just sit in a toasty semicircle around the dragon's nose and sing Peter, Paul and Mary songs. No?

Never mind. Too bad they won't let me bring my Mirkwood bow into the theater.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Bethberry, I'm deeply touched that you remember my fascination with Roggie' s flameproof eyeliner. But I would never have noticed it but for the guidance of Lush the Cold and Fair. I will be curious to see whether whether Smaug and Roggie share makeup artists.

I have many memories of you and of the lushious one. In particular, I remember the wall frescoes of trees you were painting.

Smaug reminds me too much, in the trailer, of the T-Rex in Jurassic Park, which to my mind does not make him decent competition for a balrog.