Luthien weilding Vilya

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Remember the native might of the bearers as well as their elven-rings when considering their survivability.

I think the native might of the Rings' makers is the main consideration. Rings of Power are limited by what is available to be put inside by those who fashion them. Would any of the Noldor have had more innate power than Sauron?

Also, remember that both Elrond (a descendant of Lúthien) and Galadriel (a Valinor-born Noldo) did not think it feasible for them to resist Sauron without him possessing the One. I think your scenario is in a similar vein.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I think the native might of the Rings' makers is the main consideration. Rings of Power are limited by what is available to be put inside by those who fashion them. Would any of the Noldor have had more innate power than Sauron?

Also, remember that both Elrond (a descendant of Lúthien) and Galadriel (a Valinor-born Noldo) did not think it feasible for them to resist Sauron without him possessing the One. I think your scenario is in a similar vein.

You're right. But the hypothetical scenario calls for Sauron never having participated or created his own Ring, so while he is innately mightier than those Elven smiths (Calequendi), he does not get any power enhancements like those who bear the Three.

I believe it was only Elrond who thought it would be futile to resist even a ringless Sauron.

Remember Galadriel saying to Frodo that if her wishes had any avail, the One shouldn't have been created or remained forever lost. The underscored part is telling, knowing Sauron's strength. This implies that she can manage against Sauron so long as Nenya isn't shorn of its powers and the One remained inoperable/incapacitated state. In the ROTK appendix, it states that Lorien would not fall unless Sauron would come there himself (we can assume the kingdom would fall, but that doesn't automatically mean that Galadriel would meet a similar fate to Finrod in this contest [if it came to a face-face fight with Sauron] as she has Nenya and is innately greater than her brother). So we can imagine that even if the entire forces of Mordor (instead of Minas Tirith being attacked) and Dol Guldur were poured forth on Lothlorien, without Sauron in the presence of his armies, these combined, full attacks would still be repelled indefinitely because of the power of Galadriel. That's pretty awesome, if you ask me. And how well does she stack up against the other two hypothetical bearers in this scenarario:

• Born in Valinor under the hollowed light of the Two Trees (Calequendi).

• The equal (and later greater) of Feanor--who is the most gifted Elda by Eru--even at the height of Elves' glory in Valinor.

Most importantly, the personal tutelage and apprenticeship under Melian, a Maia of great power and wisdom. I feel this element is the one important factor that allows her to surpass her uncle's stature. Melian taking her under wing saw Galadriel's innat potential. Who, other than Melian's own daughter, would qualify for such privilege? None.

Then you have Finrod who actually tasted a contest between Sauron, and though he was able to hold out for a while, he lost. But in this new scenario:

• He is resurrected, so he reaches Glorfindel status, having an enhanced spiritual strength, coming very close to the Maiar (and remember Galadriel is still said to be the greatest even with a resurrected Glorfindel in account regardless of Nenya). So he is sent back, purified and made stronger than the fea and hroa that perished previously.

• He is Calequendi.

• He is skilled in songs of power (spells?) and wiser than any of his cousins (sons of Feanor and sons of Fingolfin).

I'd say he'd be extremely formidable now, and even more so with Narya on his finger. I don't think he'd suffer the same fate with Sauron where it to happen again, with all is enhancements.

And finally Luthien. In this scenario she is resurrected and retains inherent grace and immortality:

• Has half the strength of Melian's ainur powers as her daughter. We all know Melian is no low-level maia. She is up there with Sauron and Eonwe. So having just 1/2 of Melian can still mean a very powerful heritage.

• We can safely assume that she is also a pupil of Melian, being her daughter and having her divine genes.

• With Vilya in her keeping, she'd be very powerful and would not tire after executing grand shows of power (e.g., the slumbering dance at Angband). Unlike the Istari, she isn't placed in a restrictive body to veil her mairin powers. Her body is real and that of an elf, so she'd have full liberties expressing what she can do.

So taking all this into account, do the Eldar not have a greater chance of survival (even in the 1st age) with all the magical trinkets and innately powerful and wise guardians? Take also the fact that the Three can arrest decay and weariness (which has a far-reaching healing and preserving effect compared to the Seven and Nine, that only enhanced their bearers and not their surrounding environment), so the curse of Mandos on weariness has no effect on wherever kingdom these rings reside.