Zaentz countersues the Estate

[Zigûr]

What is frustrating is that outside of places like this it is difficult, if not impossible, to hold any discourse about Professor Tolkien's work without the films rearing their head. I simply don't understand how these adaptations, just because they were popular, have somehow become grafted onto the source material as if they are all fundamentally the same thing, as if Professor Tolkien and Peter Jackson are somehow collaborators in a combined literary and cinematic vision, which is something Zaentz's countersuit would like to establish as well.

It really seems to happen a lot with "geek culture", though, doesn't it? Or maybe I should say "genre culture," or really anything that seems to attract the frothing hysteria of bored, comfortable Western people. Everything becomes indistinguishable: the source material, the adaptations, any merchandise, and their cultural presence in the shape of references, memes, catchphrases etc. It seems to be the same with things like Harry Potter or, as we've discussed elsewhere, "A Song of Ice and Fire", or comic-book superheroes. Sherlock Holmes might be another example. I find this to be a shame because it treats all of these things as one entity, so we can't talk about one without the other, at least in mainstream conversation. At least we have places like this as an alternative.

Imagine if we treated "canonical literature" this way, like if you mentioned Ninteen Eighty-Four everyone started thinking about John Hurt, or if you tried to talk about Great Expectations people started quoting lines from the various adaptations that weren't in the book. It'd be absurd, but that doesn't happen because adaptations of those kinds of texts haven't become somehow inextricably merged with the source material for whatever reason. There once was a time when I was very hostile towards the literary establishment for what I perceived as its snobbery, but these days I am as frustrated, if not more, with the cultural milieu surrounding 'popular fiction' or 'genre fiction' or however it should be described. It seems as if the overwhelming majority of enthusiasts couldn't care less if these texts are exploited into franchises which ultimately only serve a corporate interest, happily devouring the repurposed material which is chewed up and regurgitated by Hollywood and the like.

Again, I apologise if this comes across as pretentious or arrogant. There are just times when I feel extremely isolated and alien among a culture which seems to have completely different values to my own.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

What is frustrating is that outside of places like this it is difficult, if not impossible, to hold any discourse about Professor Tolkien's work without the films rearing their head.

I haven't been poking around any other forums in many years, so I'll have to take your word about the prevailing sentiments there. I wonder if the distinction of the Downs is due to the fact that it was begun a couple of years before the movies were released. I do (grudgingly) credit the movies though, for apparently drawing people to this place in the buildup to the films' release. Many seem to have been only interested in the films, but some have been thoughtful, well spoken individuals who have brought a lot of valuable contributions here over the years.

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Everything becomes indistinguishable: the source material, the adaptations, any merchandise, and their cultural presence in the shape of references, memes, catchphrases etc. It seems to be the same with things like Harry Potter or, as we've discussed elsewhere, "A Song of Ice and Fire", or comic-book superheroes. Sherlock Holmes might be another example. I find this to be a shame because it treats all of these things as one entity, so we can't talk about one without the other, at least in mainstream conversation. At least we have places like this as an alternative.

I think the commercialization has become inevitable, as the value of a literary work is apparently only measured in terms of monetary potential. That naturally leads to a disregard for any efforts to preserve the integrity of the source material, and the cheerful addition of ideas and scenes not conceived in the author's wildest dreams. Books written in today's times are more susceptible, I would think, but Tolkien and A.C. Doyle are certainly not immune. The mass-media product is much more attractive to this Twitter-addicted, instant gratification society, so again it's not a stretch to see that a movie would garner more attention than the book it's based upon.

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Again, I apologise if this comes across as pretentious or arrogant. There are just times when I feel extremely isolated and alien among a culture which seems to have completely different values to my own.

As you said though, there are those who "feel your pain". I still haven't seen the Hobbit film myself, and I have no plans to do so. I really don't have any animosity toward PJ, nor do I look down my nose at people who have enjoyed the movies. I just don't think the movies have, or will do anything to enrich my enjoyment of Tolkien's works, so there's no point in me just helping Zaentz and co. line their pockets.

[malickfan]

As you said though, there are those who "feel your pain". I still haven't seen the Hobbit film myself, and I have no plans to do so.QUOTE]

If only I had you're willpower, I will defintely se the other two hobbit films...but only because I feel like I have to (I'll defintely buy the blu ray-I'm a sucker for behind the scenes stuff, and I enjoyed the video blogs more than AUJ itself)