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Old 09-23-2013, 05:38 PM   #1
Zigūr
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To be fair, Aragorn only states that he would have Legolas go with Boromir to Minas Tirith "if Legolas is not willing to leave us," by which I assume he would have been more or less fine with Legolas accompanying them to Mordor as well.

I always took his choice of Gimli as being due to the simple fact that he was a Dwarf and presumably the most likely of all of them to endure the hardships of Mordor - although as of course we've already discovered by this point Gimli is perhaps more delicate than might otherwise have been assumed: "Hard was my parting from Lothlórien."
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:18 PM   #2
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I always took his choice of Gimli as being due to the simple fact that he was a Dwarf and presumably the most likely of all of them to endure the hardships of Mordor - although as of course we've already discovered by this point Gimli is perhaps more delicate than might otherwise have been assumed: "Hard was my parting from Lothlórien."
But the parting from Lorien has nothing to do with physical toughness, and it is quite the emotional moment for a Dwarf like Gimli. I think he deserves some slack here.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:13 PM   #3
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But the parting from Lorien has nothing to do with physical toughness, and it is quite the emotional moment for a Dwarf like Gimli. I think he deserves some slack here.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm fully pro-Gimli here. It was my intention to actually show that we have to separate Gimli's emotions, such as the previously mentioned terror in the Paths of the Dead, from his natural physical hardihood. So Aragorn already knows that Gimli is not unemotional, but that it's not important because he also knows that as a Dwarf he is enduring - as we later see in their long pursuit of the Uruk-hai, in battle at the Hornburg and elsewhere. As such I think Gimli was a valid choice. I would imagine that the horrors of the Dwimorberg affected him in a way that the more blunt adversity of Mordor might not.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:23 AM   #4
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Coming back to the original question I think you could also see it from the POV of the prof and what he was intending (aka. not only discuss it inside the logic of the story and the psychology of the characters).

It's easy to see that including Boromir is a smart move as it brings interesting tensions, conflicting loyalties, social and personal struggles etc. to the fellowship (and of course opening up the POV of the men of Minas Tirith to the whole mess) - great dramatic possibilities open up to the storyteller by adding a character like Boromir. And the prof really used those possibilities to the max.

But possibly even more importantly, I think, adding Boromir (and what he does) adds also to the general idea, or worldview, that things happen by a sort of providence where every act has it's role. Frodo would not have gone alone hadn't Boromir tried to take the ring - and with Aragorn, Gimli and maybe others with him the trip to Mordor would have been different and the Ring probably would not have been destroyed. Like with Gollum being still alive in the end securing the Ring gets destroyed as Frodo couldn't have done it - or Gandalf falling in Moria without which the two aforementioned things probably wouldn't have happened, Merry & Pip being taken captives and ending up in Fangorn pushing the ents into war with Saruman and thus enabling Rohan to join the fight at the Pelennor fields etc.

So even "bad" things serve a purpose.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:27 AM   #5
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Originally posted by Nogrod
I think, adding Boromir (and what he does) adds also to the general idea, or worldview, that things happen by a sort of providence where every act has it's role.
Which touches on the interesting dichotomy in ME between predestination/Iluvatar's will versus free will. For example, Frodo was "meant to have the Ring." But he could have refused it. And Isildur could have chosen to destroy the Ring (rather messing up the LOtR, but...

Gandalf says somewhere, I think, that he would not consider himself to have failed if even a (flower?) remains to eventually redeem ME from Sauron. There is free will, which can lead to failures against Morgoth, Sauron, etc. But eventually Eru will repair the situation. Or to quote the Silmarillion:
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Then Iluvatar spoke, and he said: "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shall see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but my instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."
Which really ticked off the bright boy in the class (Melkor).
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:02 PM   #6
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I see Boromir's joining as fate, just as Judas Iscariot was allowed to join the Apostles (not that I want to equate Boromir with Judas, mind you- it's just a salient example to me). Boromir's purpose was to set certain things in motion.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:06 PM   #7
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I see Boromir's joining as fate, just as Judas Iscariot was allowed to join the Apostles (not that I want to equate Boromir with Judas, mind you- it's just a salient example to me). Boromir's purpose was to set certain things in motion.
I'm most prone to believe this, beyond all personal and strategic reasoning inside the fellowship and outside as well.

If Boromir had not been present, a domino effect would have occurred altering the fate of Middle Earth as we know it:
  • The Fellowship would have eventually started to be tempted by the ring
  • Frodo would not have encountered Gollum
  • Fellowship would eventually fall apart
  • The lust for the ring may drive Fellowship to kill Frodo
  • Even if they don't, Frodo not meeting Gollum means that the ring would not be dropped into the Crack of Doom

Thus completely changing the story. Boromir's mere presence played a monumental part in this story. As Gandalf said when referring to Gollum that Gollum should not be killed because he may have some part to play yet, whether for good or evil, I believe the same happened with Boromir. I also believe there exists a distinct possibility that Elrond may have come to the same conclusion about Boromir that Gandalf had about Gollum.
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