What if Glorfindel joined the fellowship to Lothlorien?

[Galadriel55]

I have a feeling that Glorfindel would have gone, out of a sense of duty, if the two last open slots of the Fellowship would not have been filled by Merry and Pippin. As for going as a guard, even if you're going half-way you're still going. If yu add one guard, you may as well add two, and three, and the point of 9 members is gone. Also, they did not know for sure they would pass through Lorien. Beyond that they had to start out going south, they had no clue what their route will be. They had to improvise on the spot depending on the situation. Giving them a guard until a certain point defeats this point also. And if you don't give the guard a destination up to which he must protect the Fellowship, I doubt anyone would just say mid-way that his job is done and he will return home. He'd follow till the end, which would just make it 10 members. 9 is a good number - not too big, not too small, and it reflects the number of the Nazgul. If you stray to either direction you may as well forget the whole idea altogether.

[Arathorn111]

Since none of the members of the fellowship, except Frodo, were bound to go Mordor (Aragorn and Boromir were heading for Minas Thirith for example) I think that it wouldn't be a problem that Glorfindel would only follow them for just one part of the journey. As for the fellowship being nine walkers to counter the nine riders it would have been ruined if Glorfindel as well would have joined them IF he would have been appointed a member of the fellowship.

The main reason for adding Glorfindel as a guard, according to my weird little world, was as a precaution towards Durins Bane, should the fellowship be forced to take the route through Moria.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Arathorn111

The main reason for adding Glorfindel as a guard, according to my weird little world, was as a precaution towards Durins Bane, should the fellowship be forced to take the route through Moria.

That returns to the fact that the true nature of Durin's Bane wasn't known by any of the Fellowship, or indeed by anyone in Rivendell. Both Aragorn and Gandalf had been through Moria previously, and neither had perceived, or apparently encountered, the Balrog.
Dáin had gotten a partial glimpse of it during the Battle of Azanulbizar, but had no inkling of what it was.
That being the case, Gandalf's logic for not including an "elf-lord" in the Fellowship is sound enough.

[Arathorn111]

No one knew what Durings Bane was, but surely Gandalf and Elrond would have suspected that it was a Balrog, or am I just drunk and confused here?

I didn't mean that Glorfindel was to join the company for the soly purpose of defeating the Balrog, but because it would be wise to bring perhaps the greatest warrior that still lived against what ever Durins Bane might be.

[Boromir88]

Originally Elrond had not intended for Merry and Pippin to join the Fellowship, and was going to choose, if I remember correctly, two member of his own house. I would wager the two were going to be his sons, Elladan and Elrohir. The two had went ahead before the Fellowship left to scout out the route and who had later went with the Dunedain to Minas Tirith.

I doubt Glorfindel would have been one of the companions. Elrond and Gandalf's entire plan was based on a belief it was impossible to defeat Sauron through strength of arms. It was their rejection of the temptation for ultimate power (the Ring) and to place it all in a "fool's hope." Therefor, any chance for the plan's success relied on fate and secrecy. Elrond plainly said so after Frodo accepted the task:

"If I understand aright all that I have heard...I think this task was appointed for you, Frodo; and that if you do not find a way, no one will. This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and the counsels of the great. Who of all the wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck?"~The Council of Elrond

One might question, if the quest hinged on secrecy, wouldn't Sauron notice a powerful Istari in the group? Sauron had figured Saruman out. Sauron knew best how to deal with Saruman because they were of similar mind. Gandalf was another matter though. Gandalf's thoughts had always alluded Sauron, and Gandalf was effective at keeping his true nature cloaked. He only reveals the extent of his true power in the battle with Durin's Bane.

Then when you consider Glorfindel, it's not just the fact "this powerful 1st age Noldor elf lord leaving Rivendell with others" would likely attract more attention. It has to be remembered it was Glorfindel who, in all his might and power drove the Nazgul into the flood. When the Nazgul return to Mordor to be given new mounts, I'm sure they would have reported the full encounter and circumstances of their drowning back to Sauron. If that same elf who was powerful enough to drive the 9 into the flood left with the company, might as well just put a huge "kick me" sign on their back.

[Arathorn111]

You have valid points Borormir, but Gandalf reveals himself at Caradhras, does he not? At that point, would it change Saurons mind having Glorfindel with them? I mean, if Sauron did discover that Gandalf along with a company of hobbits (the last known ringbearers to Saurons knowledge) left Rivendell (the last place the ring was known to be) would he not have susspected the same thing, Glorfindol or no Glorfindel?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Arathorn111

You have valid points Borormir, but Gandalf reveals himself at Caradhras, does he not? At that point, would it change Saurons mind having Glorfindel with them? I mean, if Sauron did discover that Gandalf along with a company of hobbits (the last known ringbearers to Saurons knowledge) left Rivendell (the last place the ring was known to be) would he not have susspected the same thing, Glorfindol or no Glorfindel?

Arathorn, you still seem to be assuming everything that happened to the Fellowship was planned, or at least known about in advance. I mean, this isn't some fourth-wall-breaker deal where the characters get to flip ahead and learn the plot of the book they're in.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Originally Elrond had not intended for Merry and Pippin to join the Fellowship, and was going to choose, if I remember correctly, two member of his own house. I would wager the two were going to be his sons, Elladan and Elrohir. The two had went ahead before the Fellowship left to scout out the route and who had later went with the Dunedain to Minas Tirith

Yeah why didn't they go? What was the reasoning here, wasn't it something like, and I'm paraphrasing, "taking the Ring to the Fire is a hopeless mission, and since it's (next to) impossible the small may just as well attempt it as the great"? Which is pretty daft if you ask me. Like if Rafael Nadal appears on a local clay-court and he wants a challenger, and you respond by sending out a limp and near-sighted senior citizen instead of the local tennis champion since neither is likely to win. Objectively Merry and Pippin are quite useless to the Quest, and when Gandalf insists that they are to come too the only way it makes sense if by some divine premonition. Gandalf intended to accompany Frodo into Mordor if I remember correctly, and he would've been a great guide. Aragorn would too, but intended to go to Minas Tirith, but when Gandalf fell he was going to take on that responsibility. But really, wouldn't it make sense to bring some more people who knew their stuff, as a back-up? Pippin couldn't find Gondor on a map for christ's sake.

Originally Posted by Arathorn

I know that it would be folly to send the most powerfull elves to Mordor, since Sauron would have spotted them before they could have destroyed the ring.

Why, does Sauron have some kind of spot-the-Elf special ability?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Objectively Merry and Pippin are quite useless to the Quest, and when Gandalf insists that they are to come too the only way it makes sense if by some divine premonition.

I think that's the key. Gandalf "felt" that Merry and Pippin should be included, and that feeling was strong enough that he and Elrond apparently had some animated discussion about it. The wisdom of that gut feeling was obviously borne out, for Merry and Pippin were bait for Saruman, who arranged their transport to Fangorn.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Yeah why didn't they go? What was the reasoning here, wasn't it something like, and I'm paraphrasing, "taking the Ring to the Fire is a hopeless mission, and since it's (next to) impossible the small may just as well attempt it as the great"? Which is pretty daft if you ask me. Like if Rafael Nadal appears on a local clay-court and he wants a challenger, and you respond by sending out a limp and near-sighted senior citizen instead of the local tennis champion since neither is likely to win. Objectively Merry and Pippin are quite useless to the Quest, and when Gandalf insists that they are to come too the only way it makes sense if by some divine premonition. Gandalf intended to accompany Frodo into Mordor if I remember correctly, and he would've been a great guide. Aragorn would too, but intended to go to Minas Tirith, but when Gandalf fell he was going to take on that responsibility. But really, wouldn't it make sense to bring some more people who knew their stuff, as a back-up? Pippin couldn't find Gondor on a map for christ's sake.

Why, does Sauron have some kind of spot-the-Elf special ability?

Actually by that sort of thinking, it almost makes no sense NOT to have Glorfindel going, limit of nine or no. Elrond KNOWS Aragorn and Boromir are planning to not go with the fellowship into Mordor, but head for Minas Tirith. In otherwords, two of the objectively best fighters in the group are planning to leave around when the trip will be most likely to get into the point where being spotted and having to fight is probably most likey (i.e. even if Sauron isn't expecting anyone to do what the fellowship is doing, Mordor is going to have a much higher likeyhood of bumping into Mordorian troopd on random patrol than anywhere else.) Elrond THINKS Gandalf will probably stick with Frodo, but there are probably circumstances where even HE might break off (say if Sarumam comes up with a plan so dangerous that Gandalf needs to directly intervene to keep it from suceededing (basically what he does do, but happening while Gandalf is still accompanying an unbroken fellowship as opposed to one that no longer has a Frodo and Sam with it, and Gandalf still being the Gray) Plus Elronds seems to have some inklings that something might happen to Gandalf. So under those circumstances, Elrond would have to assume that Frodo might be entering Mordor guarded by only three hobbits one elf and one dwarf. Legolas and Gimli can safely be assumed to be competent fighters, but they aren't going to likely to be enough to deal with say the group being surrounded by an Orc platoon. Sam Merry and Pippin will certainly fight to the death to protect Frodo, but in this case "to the death" is likey to be very very soon, and not actually accomplish much vis a vis keeping Frodo safe. Under those circumstances sending Glorfindel as a sort of "backup" Gandalf would make a lot of sense. He is going to be at least decent guide, especially if Elrond thinks far enough ahead to send him a long with a COPY of the Map Frodo was shown (seriously, given how long the fellowiship was in Rivendell preparing, you'd think Elrond would have seen a copy got into thier hands (maybe he did, but he gave it to Gandalf or Aragorn). He's a master warrior, so probably can slaugter any roving orc patrols they are unlucky enough to bump into. And if worse comes to worse, and a Nazgul actually does spot Frodo, Glorfindel is probably the only person in Middle Earth (again except maybe Gandalf) who can go toe-to-toe with a Ringwraith and have a decent chance of actually winning, or at least surviving.

[Sarumian]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Yeah why didn't they go? What was the reasoning here, wasn't it something like, and I'm paraphrasing, "taking the Ring to the Fire is a hopeless mission, and since it's (next to) impossible the small may just as well attempt it as the great"? Which is pretty daft if you ask me. Like if Rafael Nadal appears on a local clay-court and he wants a challenger, and you respond by sending out a limp and near-sighted senior citizen instead of the local tennis champion since neither is likely to win. Objectively Merry and Pippin are quite useless to the Quest, and when Gandalf insists that they are to come too the only way it makes sense if by some divine premonition. Gandalf intended to accompany Frodo into Mordor if I remember correctly, and he would've been a great guide. Aragorn would too, but intended to go to Minas Tirith, but when Gandalf fell he was going to take on that responsibility. But really, wouldn't it make sense to bring some more people who knew their stuff, as a back-up? Pippin couldn't find Gondor on a map for christ's sake.

Gandlaf was not planning to play tennis with Rafa. ))) He was not supposed to be involved in a personal combat with Sauron.

What I would say - if the competition is not in playing tennis but in finding a needle on the court it could happen than a kid can be more efficient than Nadal. And if the quest is to recall all great champions of the past, n that case "a limp and near-sighted senior citizen" can be much better.

Originally Posted by skip spence

Why, does Sauron have some kind of spot-the-Elf special ability?

Yes, these guys were able to feel "the presence of the Force" Gandalf was actually extremely good at keeping low profile.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Arathorn111

even if they didn't know that Durins Bane wans't a Balrog at least they would have excepted as much.

But why would they have any reason to anticipate the presence of an ancient demon of a kind that, as far as they knew, had been wiped out or vanished over six thousand years earlier?

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That returns to the fact that the true nature of Durin's Bane wasn't known by any of the Fellowship, or indeed by anyone in Rivendell. Both Aragorn and Gandalf had been through Moria previously, and neither had perceived, or apparently encountered, the Balrog.
Dáin had gotten a partial glimpse of it during the Battle of Azanulbizar, but had no inkling of what it was.
That being the case, Gandalf's logic for not including an "elf-lord" in the Fellowship is sound enough.

Exactly.
Admittedly I daresay Glorfindel's presence might have been useful, but as we've established he would have been too much of a target, even travelling from one Elven land to another, which they hadn't planned anyway. The point is, the Fellowship as it was didn't stand out on the 'spiritual radar' as it were, which is seemingly why it took until Rauros for Sauron (and Saruman) to find them in the wilderness. If they'd been more obvious, with Glorfindel, perhaps it would have been far easier for Sauron to assault them more powerfully and more quickly.

[Arathorn111]

Didn't they know that a few Balrogs (or was it just the one?) just run away, rather than fight to the end? (Altough a Barlrog perhaps would't be their first guess as to what Durins Bane really was).

I thank you all who has responded and convinced me that it was far from an obvious result to include Glorfindel!