Elven Characteristics

[arathorn]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

To clarify: I'm making a guess here at what Tolkien was *trying* to say- the problem is that, taken literally, that second passage doesn't really add up at all. So I'm assuming he just hadn't thought it all out in terms of normal distribution etc. Or else he was just using stock phrases, and the statement that Elf-men were "no less than six and a half feet" is to be taken in the same sense as the preceding one that "their women were seldom less than six feet in height"; that is, a rough indication of normal height rather than a lower limit. This would explain how only "some of the great kings and leaders" were taller than this (apparent) bare minimum.

Again, though the phrasing is ambiguous enough that it's hard to be sure exactly what he did mean.

The sentence would just be like this by what you're saying:
'The Quendi were in origin a tall people. The Eldar (...) they were in general the stronger and taller members of the Elvish folk at that time. In Eldarin tradition it was said that even their women were six feet in height; their full-grown elfmen six and a half feet, while some of the great kings and leaders were taller.' - You see, now what you said makes perfectly sense.
In shorter if you ignore "seldom less" and "No less" you are correct but if you add that to the sentence so she changes her meaning. So why do laps in the sentence to make her meaning the same as the reconstructed sentence I made???

[Nerwen]

aratathorn, I have already explained my reasoning in my last two posts- covering exactly those points- and do not see why I should have to do so again, especially when you adopt that tone.

[arathorn]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

aratathorn, I have already explained my reasoning in my last two posts- covering exactly those points- and do not see why I should have to do so again, especially when you adopt that tone.

Yeah I was just trying to convince or prove that you are probably wrong but that's okay. I just don't understand why to ignore the "no less" and "seldom less" when the sentence could be much more clarifying without them. You want to put the same meaning into a sentence with or without "no less and..." and that's not write.

[Nerwen]

I'm not ignoring them. I've said I don't think either is meant to give an absolute minimum height- else "most", not "some" would be taller.

[arathorn]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'm not ignoring them. I've said I don't think either is meant to give an absolute minimum height- else "most", not "some" would be taller.

Or that indicates that royal family and others leaders didn't normaly have a higher average