could any of the kingdoms at middle earth attack the southern continents?

[Nerwen]

But Belegorn and Alfirin, the question being posed is (as far as I can work out, anyway), "why didn't Gondor just go ahead and take over the entire known world?". And possibly more than that, since tom talks about "the southern continent". That, I believe, is the sense in which "treating it like a game" is meant- the OP seems to take it as a given that world domination (more-or-less) is everyone's sole objective, regardless of practicalities.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That, I believe, is the sense in which "treating it like a game" is meant- the OP seems to take it as a given that world domination (more-or-less) is everyone's sole objective, regardless of practicalities.

Regardless of feasibility, as well. Gondor was quite incapable of launching an offensive against Rhûn or Harad with the aim of empire. As was seen, it was all Gondor could do to defend themselves from attacks by those enemies.

[tom the eldest]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Regardless of feasibility, as well. Gondor was quite incapable of launching an offensive against Rhûn or Harad with the aim of empire. As was seen, it was all Gondor could do to defend themselves from attacks by those enemies.

At the height of its might,gondor could invade the southern continents,but the casualties will be massive,and the invasion could be called of after weeks of months.afterall,they fight in a completely unfamiliar terrain,a massive jungle.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

At the height of its might,gondor could invade the southern continents,but the casualties will be massive,and the invasion could be called of after weeks of months.afterall,they fight in a completely unfamiliar terrain,a massive jungle.

Wait, how do you know it's a "massive jungle"?

[tom the eldest]

Well,looking at the map,its looks like the south continent did have large forest and jungles.and in the two towers,one of the quote says "like monkeys in the jungles of the south".

[tom the eldest]

Oh,ok,looking at the map,the dark lands are separate from middle earth and far harad,so the only way the gondorians are able to invade the land is by sea

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

At the height of its might,gondor could invade the southern continents,but the casualties will be massive,and the invasion could be called of after weeks of months.afterall,they fight in a completely unfamiliar terrain,a massive jungle.

How do you know they could invade? Or if they did, that the casualties would be massive? Or that the invasion would be called off? Or that the terrain was unfamiliar? None of these things are written about. For all we know Gondor had an elite jungle fighting unit.

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

Well,looking at the map,its looks like the south continent did have large forest and jungles.and in the two towers,one of the quote says "like monkeys in the jungles of the south".

According to which map? And do you mean Harad or the actual, separate Southern Continent? Because in the Ambarkanta map, the "Dark Lands" aren't given any detail - forests, mountains or anything else. Their presence in the maps from, say, Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth is pure speculation. I always assumed also that the reference to "apes in the dark forests of the south" was a reference to Harad, not the "Dark Lands."

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

the dark lands are separate from middle earth and far harad

Far Harad, like the rest of Harad, is part of Middle-earth. Sorry to be pedantic about this but I think it needs to be emphasised to minimise confusion.

[tom the eldest]

What i meant is the dark lands not far harad.sorry guys,i got very confused

[Nerwen]

Again, Belegorn, you cannot just assume everyone is desperate to take over the world. Evidence is required- and in the case of Gondor (which is what we're talking about now) this evidence is lacking.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Again, Belegorn, you cannot just assume everyone is desperate to take over the world. Evidence is required- and in the case of Gondor (which is what we're talking about now) this evidence is lacking.

I'm not assuming that this is what they WANTED to do. I'm assuming that had they had the manpower and incentive to do so they COULD. Gondor did expand during the reign of the 4 Ship-kings, but otherwise it seems there was no incentive for them to go about conquering other lands. Again, all I'm saying is that if they had chosen to do so and had not lost most of their people in the Downfall, Gondor could certainly if they chose to do so, take what they will.

The reason I keep bringing up Númenor is because it is the basis of my point that "the Dúnedain were only a small people in the midst of lesser Men" [RotK; ll. The Appendix on Languages] Their numbers were decimated. So even if there were incentive there it would not seem like a good policy. There are only so many colonies a reduced people can set up in conquered lands and add to that how they produce slowly and have few children.

So why did Gondor not take over the world, probably because they did not care to, or maybe they did, but if they did then they were severely lacking in manpower. Gondor was already waning during the reign of the 16th King. What is the motivation of the Kings and Noble High-Men? All I know was that Ar-Pharazôn, known as "the mightiest tyrant that had yet been in the world since the reign of Morgoth" [Sil., Akallabêth, p. 339] had two great motivations, to be King of Men rather than Sauron, and to take immortality.

"as he pondered long in secret, his heart was filled with the desire of power unbounded and the sole dominion of his will. And he determined without counsel of the Valar, or the aid of any wisdom but his own, that the title King of Men he would himself claim, and would compel Sauron to become his vassal and his servant" [p. 333-334]

If Gondor could they would, if they wanted to do so.

[Nerwen]

Okay, Belegorn, I guess I misunderstood you.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Regardless of feasibility, as well. Gondor was quite incapable of launching an offensive against Rhûn or Harad with the aim of empire. As was seen, it was all Gondor could do to defend themselves from attacks by those enemies.

At what period? At the height of the Kingdom, Gondor in fact did control large chunks of Rhun and Harad.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

At what period? At the height of the Kingdom, Gondor in fact did control large chunks of Rhun and Harad.

Though the sphere of Gondor's influence under King Hyarmendacil did extend to the Sea of Rhûn east and the River Harnen south, that was not an occupation or invasion. Gondor had defeated the Haradrim to the extent that the latter were compelled to pay homage to Gondor, temporarily. I think it's notable that in that case the sons of the kings of Harad lived in Gondor as hostages. That indicates that Gondor lacked the manpower for active occupation of the "conquered" territory.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

But Belegorn and Alfirin, the question being posed is (as far as I can work out, anyway), "why didn't Gondor just go ahead and take over the entire known world?". And possibly more than that, since tom talks about "the southern continent".

I think it was probably a question of manpower as I mentioned in my last post. I believe Ar-Pharazôn took offense to Sauron claiming to be King of the World or some such. Númenor lost a lot of men in its downfall, even the King and his wife. The Dúnedain were few after Númenor's destruction even though there were settlements in M-E before its destruction.

"On the western shores in the days of their power the Númenóreans had maintained many forts and havens for the help of their ships in their great voyages; and the chief of these had been at Pelargir at the mouths of the Anduin in the land that was after called Gondor... Now the people of Elendil were not many, for only a few great ships had escaped the Downfall. There were, it is true, many dwellers upon the west-shores who came in part of the blood of Westernesse, being descended from mariners and wardens of forts set there in the Dark Years; yet all told the Dúnedain were only a small people in the midst of lesser Men." [RotK; ll. The Appendix on Languages]

Númenor's armies were indeed powerful, they being a powerful people in themselves probably playing no small part. Ar-Pharazôn's "armada that took haven at Umbar was so great, and the Númenóreans at their height so terrible and resplendent, that Sauron's servants deserted him." [Letter# 156] I think it is very possible they could have expanded into other realms had they remained intact as a people.

I do not think great casualties are often necessary in these battles. Turenne often won without really fighting based on his marches and positioning. Perhaps, as happened with Sauron's forces, their enemies would lay down their arms.

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

so the only way the gondorians are able to invade the land is by sea

If they had to invade by sea this would not be a problem as they were a maritime power and great sailors and builders of boats.