The differences between Elves and Men

[Galin]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I'm not one to try to draw bright lines of 'canonicity;'

Well that's my whole argument here

As I agree the draft texts imply Avarin Elves no matter when the term Avari came into use with its 'ultimate' meaning. But I'll add: not even author-published?

I think ultimately the legendarium is its history, and changes and inconsistencies are part of it. Given Tolkien's way of working andf constant changes of mind, I don't think it's helpful to set up one dustbin of "posthumously-published works" that includes everything from vague sketches about the Dome of Varda, speculative essays like 'Orks', and works like Quendi and Eldar which were never intended for publication but rather as 'background' or 'lore' for JRRT's private purposes, and which were I think intended (at the time of writing) to be 'definitive' (allowing of course for the transient nature of 'definitive' when we're dealing with JRRT!

I think it is helpful in some ways, if not in others. Or at least in one way.

I also wouldn't put disproportionate weight on 'dogs that didn't bark' in the Revised Edition, which was after all not a comprehensive overhaul but a quick-and-dirty job for the purpose of regularising the US copyright. Some things T happened to have in his head and was happy to include, like the extended account of the Kinslaying; some were fairly 'easy' name changes like Finrod > Finarfin (tho he was imperfect even with that one). But T in revision hadr a tendency to pounce upon particular things that caught his eye, not a systematic approach at all. Certainly it's the case that he had definitely changed his mind about the Silvan tongue, even if he didn't amend App F; his Letters are unequivocal.

I agree, Tolkien probably just 'missed' his chance. Maybe not too, as maybe his 'ros reaction' kicked in. But even if he simply missed his chance, why doesn't the answer that he published trump all else? Even Tolkien thought what he published in the Appendices about -ros must trump his change of mind later...

... and yes, he is not consistent here either; but I think it illustrates the different animal that even Tolkien knows he is dealing with -- and thus, for all we know, what he wrote in letters or any subsequent draft texts about the Eldar, would take a back seat to already published text...

... 'most of this fails' is a decision, yes, but based on consideration that simply doesn't exist with work that is still private to Tolkien -- even if that distinction is admittedly sweeping.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The finny thing about the Problem of Ros is that Tolkien could easily have got out of the Cair Andros issue, had he thought of it (or wanted to!)

[Galin]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

The finny thing about the Problem of Ros is that Tolkien could easily have got out of the Cair Andros issue, had he thought of it (or wanted to!)

I think so too actually... although there is Rauros as well. But JRRT didn't try here [seemingly], and in any case he knew he had to 'deal with it' in a way that he would not have had to if Cair Andros had not been published [as Sindarin].

Which is basically another canon-related thing to say so I'll shaddup for now