WW CVI: Tol-in-Westeros Game Thread

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

The way I see it:

We lynch the bear, lose a night kill but the Lions gain a cobbler.

Lions kill the bear, innocents gain a helper and we still lose a night kill.


I prefer the odds of a Lion killing off a bear/maiden then us lynching them and essentially helping the Lions. Sure, the two-kill night could kill off more innocents, but could also kill off a lion and an innocent.

Looking at the alternatives, lynching a bear/maiden will just end up helping the Lions more then helping the innocents.

Ok, I know you're not the first to say this, and you probably won't be the last, but it's just got to be said and your post happened to have taken the blow. Unless you're a Lion, you can't make the lions kill who you want them to kill, and if you are a lion, you're not gonna kill those who ham you with their deaths (ie the kind the village wants you to kill). So yes, it's ideal if the Lions get the Bear, but we can't make it happen, so leave the beaten horse alone and start doing something that we can make happen.

/end rant.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Gil, you talk (and this isn't the only example) as though we could somehow plan this!

Thought so too at this post, but realised that Gil will be Gil. I can see him posting that as any role. Yes, his posts are rather... Gil, but that particular one wasn't big enough to make me actually suspect him.


Another thing a bunch of people said is that we're talking about lovers too much and lions too little. Well, what do you want in the first-in-several-years game with lovers? That's the first point. The second one is that how exactly are you planning to find wolves with no votes, no kills, no posts, no nothing? Discussion of the roles is as good a place as any to start chatting. To be quite honest, I'm very happy with the start of this game. A typical D1 has 20 hours dedicated to complete silence, 3 to IC and banter, and the rest to something that sounds like "I don't like the way he phrased his IC post, I'll vote for him". Ok fine, that was an exaggeration, but you get the point. This game there's a good discussion going on the various possibilities for the new roles and rules, something that could also be reread later on with a bit more known roles. It's true that we have to look out for people to vote (in 2h I believe), but saying "look for suspicion" isn't gonna help you get people to talk. A good discussion will. If everyone says "Let's look for wolves!", you're not gonna find any, because there's nothing more left to say. People who encourage others to restrict discussion on D1 to "looking for wolves/lions" do a very good job of allowing the wolves to hide beneath these words.

/end rant #2

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

There isn't much to say about wolves day 1, especially when there isn't anything special about them. All there is to get discussion going at the beginning is to talk about the unique aspects of the game.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Rikae

Getting rid of a night kill is surely worth having a cobbler around, and I wouldn't be so sure the wolves are willing to kill the bear.

Yes. This.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The cobbler isn't my greatest concern either, but the fact that no one seems to care at all makes me feel like there's something furry going on in the discussion.

Actually, the cobbler has been mentioned several times at the very beginning, and most of us seem to agree that a Night kill is a good trade for a cobbler. What's more to say on the discussion? What do you want people to say? And why are you agitating people so much against killing one of the lovers? I can't say I'm liking the way you're pushing the trend.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

So anyway, deciding whether we should be targeting one over the other isn't really all that productive to me. The methods of discovering either will be fairly similar I think (kill the bad guys!), and lynching the Bear would not be terrible to the point where we should be actively trying to avoid doing it.

(3 more hours, if I'm correct?)

Wilwa, I'm liking you more and more with each post. And 2 hours.



And now it's time for me to start looking at specific people... but that will have to wait a bit.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Another thing a bunch of people said is that we're talking about lovers too much and lions too little. Well, what do you want in the first-in-several-years game with lovers? That's the first point. The second one is that how exactly are you planning to find wolves with no votes, no kills, no posts, no nothing? Discussion of the roles is as good a place as any to start chatting. To be quite honest, I'm very happy with the start of this game. A typical D1 has 20 hours dedicated to complete silence, 3 to IC and banter, and the rest to something that sounds like "I don't like the way he phrased his IC post, I'll vote for him". Ok fine, that was an exaggeration, but you get the point. This game there's a good discussion going on the various possibilities for the new roles and rules, something that could also be reread later on with a bit more known roles. It's true that we have to look out for people to vote (in 2h I believe), but saying "look for suspicion" isn't gonna help you get people to talk. A good discussion will. If everyone says "Let's look for wolves!", you're not gonna find any, because there's nothing more left to say. People who encourage others to restrict discussion on D1 to "looking for wolves/lions" do a very good job of allowing the wolves to hide beneath these words.

Preach!

Originally Posted by Mac

PS: more house sigil avatars everybody!

Uhm, mine is a bear...I think I'll pass

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

If everyone says "Let's look for wolves!", you're not gonna find any, because there's nothing more left to say. People who encourage others to restrict discussion on D1 to "looking for wolves/lions" do a very good job of allowing the wolves to hide beneath these words.

Hmm... not sure about this.

I would argue that lions (let's not bring traditional bigotry against the noble wolf into this game, people!) would find it far easier to hide in a drawn-out discussion on game mechanics.

I always fancy that we can find lions - usually, in subsequent days I grant you - if we had gotten right down into the mud-slinging as early as possible on Day 1. You see this in the more basic games, for sure; I don't think this general tactic should change in the more complex ones.

For that reason, I'm somewhat suspicious of those guests who are chummying up to others by praising the "good discussion" they are engaged in - and which gets us no nearer a good old-fashioned lion-lynching.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Hmm... not sure about this.

I would argue that lions (let's not bring traditional bigotry against the noble wolf into this game, people!) would find it far easier to hide in a drawn-out discussion on game mechanics.

I always fancy that we can find lions - usually, in subsequent days I grant you - if we had gotten right down into the mud-slinging as early as possible on Day 1. You see this in the more basic games, for sure; I don't think this general tactic should change in the more complex ones.

For that reason, I'm somewhat suspicious of those guests who are chummying up to others by praising the "good discussion" they are engaged in - and which gets us no nearer a good old-fashioned lion-lynching.

Lynch a lion. Go. Be my guest. Can you see one? Can you find one? Are you going to find one by yelling "go find lions!" at the top of your lungs? I'm a fan of getting lions/wolves/whatever. I'm not a fan of people telling other people to go look for them.

EDIT: xed since quoted

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Lynch a lion. Go. Be my guest. Can you see one?

Maybe I can.

[Encaitare]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

A "clear direction"? It's a first for me playing with you, but I hope that doesn't indicate a Lion waiting to see which way the wind blows.

Mmm, I can see how that might come across as bandwagonny, at the very least. At the time I posted, no one had yet voted. So I was more trying to express that I had no idea what anyone was going to base their votes on, as no one was appearing overtly suspicious to me. But I'm of the mind that Day 1 is pretty much a shot in the dark.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Lynch a lion. Go. Be my guest. Can you see one? Can you find one? Are you going to find one by yelling "go find lions!" at the top of your lungs? I'm a fan of getting lions/wolves/whatever. I'm not a fan of people telling other people to go look for them.

I think what Eomer is saying is that he would prefer that we start making accusations and see how everyone responds. You don't seem to like that. Are you invested in keeping the lions' identities a secret?

(Was that what more like you wanted, Eomer?)

Edit: cross-posted with Eomer.

[A Little Green]

Phew. Three pages, guys? I'm impressed. Anyway, to business, sorry for no chronology and lousy formatting, I'm in a hurry to say everything I want to say!

A couple of things on the lovers. First, to summarise, both the village and the lions want them dead (even though the bear can also be useful to both), but don't want to be the one to do it, right? Second, I agree with Eomer and whoever else in this absurdly large crowd pointed out that all the speculation on whether we, or the lions for that matter, should kill the bear or not, is slightly useless. (Oh dear that sentence is awful, anyone who can decipher what I mean by it gets cake!) How do you spot a werebear, anyway? I don't think I've ever played with a bear, and only once with lovers, and I'm a bit at a loss with both.

Lommy seems more chaotic than usual, especially in the beginning, and keeps using the verb 'bear', which might be accidental but confuses me anyway. I also agree with her that Mac is acting oddly chaotic too. I mean, take the following:

Originally Posted by Mac

Now, obviously I don't think we should all reveal as hunters. One fake reveal might stir the pot a little, but many will eventually start to benefit the wolves.

A rather ordinary line otherwise, but this came right after he himself trollingly revealed as the hunter. ???

Originally Posted by Skip

Anyway, I have to vote now since I probably won't have time to do it later. This is of course a stab in the dark but I'll go with:

++Gil Galad

He talks a lot but it's mostly echoes of what others have already said and he's careful not to be controversial. He argues whether we should go after the bear or the Lions which imo is a pretty moot point at present. This makes me suspect he's throwing out smokescreens.

As others have pointed out, this was a very easy vote, and the reasoning looks a little far-fetched. But it's also Day 1, and I seem to recall an innocent Skip being lynched for stuff like this before, so I'd prefer to go for someone else.

Originally Posted by Mac, underlining mine

Well, maybe. The numbers may be on your side, but it would also mean we'd be without a proper analyzable wolf kill for two Nights. That doesn't help us.

Whose side is that, Mac?

Originally Posted by Mac

PS: more house sigil avatars everybody!

Does mine qualify?


EDIT: x-ed since Nogrod's 106. You need to slow down, people!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Lynch a lion. Go. Be my guest. Can you find one? Are you going to find one by yelling "go find lions!" at the top of your lungs? I'm a fan of getting lions/wolves/whatever. I'm not a fan of people telling other people to go look for them.

The second odd thing of the Day thus far.

And I'm not a fan of those who point their fingers in this kind of vague fashion just implying something while actually not even doing it (not to talk of actually laying a claim or making an open suspicion) - looks pretty lionish to me. And anyway, with an hour to go we need to get something going by way of making suspicions.

So yes, I'm suspecting Galadriel the most at the moment. Going to read back next...


EDIT: X'd with Lommy

[Nogrod]

Btw. would our gracious moddesses offer us a voting-tally thus far with all the non-highlighted votes & stuff confirmed?

[wilwarin538]

I'm remembering now how much I dislike Day 1 votes. Looks like I may be getting pulled away from my desk soon, not sure how long it'll take so won't take the chance that I can't come back.

Going with:

++Skip

Because his ideas about the hunter were odd and I don't think they were really in our best interest. Not a lot to go on, I know, but my best hunch right now.

Hopefully I can come back on, I'll see how long this meeting goes, if not: good luck!

x'ed with G55, Encai (that sucks! Hopefully it gets sorted out!), and Nog

[Thinlómien]

Skip -> Gil
Lottie -> Skip
Sally -> Lottie
Boro -> Inzil
Kit -> Skip 2
Wilwa -> Skip 3
Inzil -> Skip 4

edit: xed with Nog's request and the two last votes, added

[Thinlómien]

Iiiinteresting!

What the ??? at this bandwagon?!

Also anyone else notice that the second and the third voter (Lottie and Sally) voted the one that had voted before them. Weird.


ediT: xed with everyone, corrected my censored phrasing

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Also anyone else notice that the second and the third voter (Lottie and Sally) voted the one that had voted before them. Weird.

Huh, interesting find. *Files for later reference*

[Thinlómien]

Skip is fishy, but he is always fishy (sorry! ). Why he might be a wolf: his vote was an easy one, and combined with the fishyness, it's not a very trustworthy combination. Why he might be innocent: sudden bandwagons against someone are usually against an innocent, my experience tells me. Wolves hardly go down without an objection. Then again, not sure if that rule applies in this big a village.

Of the others that have been voted this far, I'm not very suspicious of Inzil, Gil or Mac, and Lottie isn't on the top of my list either.

Currently thinking about voting Galadriel or Wilwa. Could also go for any of the under the radar club, or even Lottie or Skip if the other options are bad.


edi: xed with #118 and onwards

[Rikae]

Something about Wilwa bothers me. She's reasonable enough, but she seems nervous.