Gandalf, Moria, and Arrest

[Moonraker]

Originally Posted by Legolas

An absurd idea; moving this to N&N. Not sure anyone should get too worked up about this.

Please keep in mind:

If Aragorn was of the same temperament and mind set as Boromir, he would have pushed for mutiny and the arrest of Gandalf if the latter did not change his mind on taking the Company through Moria. It is the Wolves who really saved the day for Gandalf generally speaking. Thankfully, Aragorn was not so easily corrupted by the Ring, and was much stronger mentally than Bormomir to be able to resist the Ring.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Thankfully, Aragorn was not so easily corrupted by the Ring, and was much stronger mentally than Bormomir to be able to resist the Ring.

Aragorn's trust of Gandalf had nothing to do with the Ring. He had simply been a friend of Gandalf for a long time, and had also no doubt been instructed by Elrond and the Rivendell elves of Gandalf's importance to the effort against Sauron.

[Moonraker]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Aragorn's trust of Gandalf had nothing to do with the Ring. He had simply been a friend of Gandalf for a long time, and had also no doubt been instructed by Elrond and the Rivendell elves of Gandalf's importance to the effort against Sauron.

Were Gandalf and Boromir not on good terms previously? No real fondness, but they certainly were on the same side. Yet his desire for the Ring made friendship second nature.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Were Gandalf and Boromir not on good terms previously? No real fondness, but they certainly were on the same side. Yet his desire for the Ring made friendship second nature.

I don't recall there being any ill-will between them. I got the impression, at least if I were in the Company's shoes, that Boromir would be one of those guys who said things that could rub you the wrong way but in no way meant to demean one. Boromir was one of most anybody who would look to use the Ring to do good but in the end it would turn to evil. He saw the Ring as a means to help Gondor, a weapon to use against the enemy. I do not think his intentions were bad. Just as it appears was the case with Saruman. Even though he tried to take the Ring by force in the end he was still on the side of the free people. I think it just ate at him that Frodo taking the Ring to Mordor rather than using it to destroy Sauron was like handing him a gift. I could see how he would have misgivings about Frodo taking the Enemy's weapon back to the Enemy to destroy it.

[Moonraker]

Why didn't Gandalf not consider taking the Ring through Mirkwood, and for a time come under the hospitality of the Wood Elves?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Why didn't Gandalf not consider taking the Ring through Mirkwood, and for a time come under the hospitality of the Wood Elves?

For one thing, Dol Guldur was a location of Sauron's minions. Not to mention the fact that Thranduil's halls were quite a bit out of the way, and time was rather pressing.

[Moonraker]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

For one thing, Dol Guldur was a location of Sauron's minions. Not to mention the fact that Thranduil's halls were quite a bit out of the way, and time was rather pressing.

Legolas never once mentioned going that way, which is a little surprising. He would have known where his kindred were hidden as ambushers in Mirkwood, so they may well have received an escort for much of the journey once they went in. Though the Eye of Sauron may well have been fixed on and near to Dol Guldur.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Why didn't Gandalf not consider taking the Ring through Mirkwood, and for a time come under the hospitality of the Wood Elves?

Sauron has a fortress there. Besides, Legolas told the Council that Mirkwood was not safe and he also mentions Dol Guldur.

Originally Posted by FotR; The Council of Elrond

Dark things that were driven out in the year of the Dragon's fall have returned in greater numbers, and Mirkwood is again an evil place, save where our realm is maintained.

<...>

We failed to recapture Gollum <...> we were drawing nigh to Dol Goldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way.

It was also said how the men of Dale were also being harassed, "Already war is gathering on his [King Brand's] eastern borders." [FotR, bk. 2, ch. 2] So really that area was not a safe place to bring the Ring. Also the Elves of Thranduil's realms were attacked when the people of Dol Goldur learned of the captivity of Gollum there. On March 15th in Mirkwood several attacks occur.

Originally Posted by Appendix B: The Thrid Age

Battle under the trees in Mirkwood; Thranduil repels the forces of Dol Guldur. Second assult on Lórien.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

If Aragorn was of the same temperament and mind set as Boromir, he would have pushed for mutiny and the arrest of Gandalf if the latter did not change his mind on taking the Company through Moria. It is the Wolves who really saved the day for Gandalf generally speaking. Thankfully, Aragorn was not so easily corrupted by the Ring, and was much stronger mentally than Bormomir to be able to resist the Ring.

I'm not so sure of that. It seems to me that Boromir had accepted Aragorn as a Captain/leader. In like manner did Aragorn do so with Gandalf. I do not think he would think of going against Gandalf like that. He and Boromir were of the same mind, but remember what Aragorn had said.

Originally Posted by FotR, bk. 2, ch. 4

You followed my lead almost to disaster in the snow, and have said no word of blame.

To me he was saying, "yea Moria may be dangerous and I have a foreboding of the place, but I myself almost got us all killed anyways so I can't protest too much accept to worry about you Gandalf."

I'm not sure an arrest would be the right word for what they would do had Aragorn decided to punish Gandalf. He obviously had no authority in that land anyway even if Arnor were still at its peak.

Originally Posted by Appendix A; Eriador, Arnor, and the Heirs of Isildur

At its greatest Arnor included all Eriador, except the regions beyond the Lune, and the lands east of Greyflood and Loudwater, in which lay Rivendell and Hollin.

The Lune was the western borders where the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains and the Elves in Lindon lived. And east of the Loudwater includes a big chunk of land between that river and the mountains which includes Hollin where they were traveling before they went to Moria, and Moria itself. So even High King Aragorn had no real authority in that land. I think they could try to bind him if they so wanted but recall when Gandalf met them in Fangorn.

Originally Posted by TTT; The White Rider

He lifted up his staff and Gimli's axe leaped from his grasp and fell ringing on the ground. The sword of Aragorn, stiff in his motionless hand, blazed with a sudden fire. Legolas gave a great shout and shot an arrow high into the air; it vanished in a flash of flame.

<...>

Indeed my friends, none of you has any weapon that could hurt me.

I'm not sure that the Ring came into play here, influence-wise on the others from itself that is, in the choice to head to Moria. Gandalf certainly did not want to take the Ring anywhere near Saruman, and Moria he felt would not only mask their goings but perhaps they would run into friendlier folk.

Did the wolves make a vote unnecessary? I think so. I do think that Frodo would probably have taken Gandalf's lead anyways as he said he trusted in Gandalf's judgment. Even Aragorn, though against it, would have gone.

Originally Posted by FotR; Bk. 2, ch. 4

I will follow your lead now - if this last warning does not move you.