Middle-earth What-ifs

[Corsair_Caruso]

Originally Posted by Corsair_Caruso

1. Celebrimbor and Celebrian fall in love while Galadriel and Celeborn are in Eregion; the two marry and Galadriel never leaves, staying either a, or the, leader of the realm (depending on your reading of UT).

Any takers on this? My preliminary thoughts are: if Celebrimbor and Celebrian marry, have children, etc, this increases the likelihood that Galadriel and Celeborn remain in Eregion and maintain leadership positions there. This means that when Annatar shows up claiming to be an emissary of the Valar here to help out the poor Noldor in Endor, Galadriel is in a better position to tell Annatar to shove off, or advise her son-in-law to do so. Celebrimbor is likely to heed the advice of his mother-in-law, especially with a wife and possible child to think of, and so Sauron is shut out of all the realms of the Eldar in Middle-earth.

Two things happen: one, the Gwaith-i-mirdain never begin making Rings of Power, or at least, not ones using Sauron's blueprints. The One Ring is almost certainly never made, and even if it is, it has no need to be invested with most of Sauron's power, since it has no other Rings to rule over. The Rings as we know them do not exist.

However, without a foothold into any of the Eldarin realms, Sauron is likely to abandon his attempts at subterfuge and move on to military action. The War of the Elves and Sauron begins earlier, but with different stakes. Eregion, in my opinion, is less likely to fall as completely as it did in the OTL, if Galadriel and Celeborn are still around. Despite not having Nenya to bolster her power, she is still one of the most powerful Eldar in Middle-earth (and besides, the Three weren't weapons anyway), as well as one of the wisest.

Now, will Celebrimbor and the Elves of Eregion survive the war? That, I don't know. The individual dynamics of the alternate war would have to be figured out more specifically. Celebrimbor might be advised by Galadriel to evacuate his people in the face of invasion, or he might not. If he is advised to do so, he might heed the advice or ignore it. I think he would evacuate his wife and child in the face of such danger. Such a child, were it to be a male, could be a feasible heir to the High-kingship of the Noldor, since Elrond now has no children (with Celebrian, anyway).

I know what you're going to say: the Feanorians were devested of their claim on the kingship when it was forsworn by Maedhros in favor of the lines of Fingolfin and Finarfin, but I actually think they didn't give up their claim entirely. I interpret it as the House of Feanor's claim on the throne being subordinated to the claims of the Houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin, and without extant members of those houses to exercise a claim, then the kingship would return to the only remaining male-line descendants of Finwe: the heir of Celebrimbor, son of Curufin, son of Feanor.

Also this: the Kingdom of Lindon collapsed at the end of the Second Age! Elrond didn't claim the Kingship because there was neither a kingdom, nor enough Noldor to merit a king. Well, that's a good point, but who knows how Lindon will fare in this timeline? The butterflies from this POD (no Rings of Power, an alternate War with more survivors from Eregion, or even a surviving Eregion?!) prevent us from predicting exactly what shape the Elven realms will be in by the end of the age... unless someone develops a story devoted to exploring it.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Corsair_Caruso

However, without a foothold into any of the Eldarin realms, Sauron is likely to abandon his attempts at subterfuge and move on to military action.

I'm not sure how this would turn out. The Dúnedain are too strong for Sauron by themselves. They would not even need the Elves to destroy Sauron's forces.

[Corsair_Caruso]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

I'm not sure how this would turn out. The Dúnedain are too strong for Sauron by themselves. They would not even need the Elves to destroy Sauron's forces.

But the Dunedain don't have much of a presence in Middle-earth at this point, not nearly as much as they did later in the age, anyway. Gil-galad eventually received aid from Numenor in the form of Ciryatur, who brought in a fleet to the Gulf of Lune and sent another up the River Gwathlo, to flank Sauron's armies from Tharbad. The maneuver was extremely effective, and left Sauron on the run with a much diminished force, which was reduced to nearly nothing by further action in Calenardhon.

Obviously, Sauron didn't consider the Dunedain a deterrent to war against the Elves, since said war occurred in the original timeline; he hadn't faced them in battle yet. It was only after this war in the original timeline that he began to consider them a serious threat.

Now, will the Numenoreans come in to save Gil-galad again? It's very likely. The butterflies from this point of departure aren't likely to affect the relationship between the Elves and Numenor, especially not by this point, and especially not in a negative way.

In fact, there are some that theorize that the shadow that fell over Numenor was brought on in large part by the Lord of the Nazgul, who was known to be a Numenorean Lord before he became a Ringwraith. Surely he would have acted in Sauron's interests once he succumbed to the Dark Lord's will; I imagine that Sauron was acting behind the scenes in Numenor for far longer than was directly indicated by Professor Tolkien in Akallabeth. There's a good case for it, anyway.

[Belegorn]

During Tar-Ciryatan's time there was the shadow on Númenor. He was born in 1635 and Sauron got his hands on the lesser Rings by 1697. Perhaps someone among his men got a Ring and influenced things on the island. That would probably be around the 1700s or maybe not until he became King in the 1800s.

[Corsair_Caruso]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

During Tar-Ciryatan's time there was the shadow on Númenor. He was born in 1635 and Sauron got his hands on the lesser Rings by 1697. Perhaps someone among his men got a Ring and influenced things on the island. That would probably be around the 1700s or maybe not until he became King in the 1800s.

Well, perhaps the shadow's growth was facilitated by an incipient Ringwraith, then, though not started by it. Men don't need supernatural assistance to fall into error and sin.

[Belegorn]

Nor do Elves. Or Maiar.