"The Hobbit: There And Back Again" To be Renamed "The Battle of the Five Armies"

[Kuruharan]

My Dad, who in the past has always enthusiastically(ish) looked forward to the next Hobbit movie to come out, has as a result of Desolation changed his views and is now looking forward to the last installment with a mixture of trepidation and resignation. I'm sure he will still go see the movie but it seems almost out of a sense of obligation than any expectation that he will actually enjoy it.

What further evidence is needed regarding how badly Jackson has messed this thing up?

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

My Dad, who in the past has always enthusiastically(ish) looked forward to the next Hobbit movie to come out, has as a result of Desolation changed his views and is now looking forward to the last installment with a mixture of trepidation and resignation. I'm sure he will still go see the movie but it seems almost out of a sense of obligation than any expectation that he will actually enjoy it.

What further evidence is needed regarding how badly Jackson has messed this thing up?

I agree with your father that I'm only going to see it out of obligationg, and also to see what PJ screws up.

He did SO WELL with Lord of the Rings, that it's unimaginable that he could do something so unfaithful to the books, and cringe worthy and painful at some points.
He certainly caught the George Lucas syndrome.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

He certainly caught the George Lucas syndrome.

In fairness to Lucas, I don't think he screwed up anything like this badly.

After J.J. finishes mauling Star Wars we will probably all look back on the prequel trilogy with fond nostalgia...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

My Dad, who in the past has always enthusiastically(ish) looked forward to the next Hobbit movie to come out, has as a result of Desolation changed his views and is now looking forward to the last installment with a mixture of trepidation and resignation.

I'm looking forward to it with great joy and excitement-- because it will be the LAST, and we will no longer have to suffer any more of PJ's use of the Tolkien name on his moronic action-adventures for retarded 12-year-olds.

[IxnaY AintsaY]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I'm looking forward to it with great joy and excitement-- because it will be the LAST, and we will no longer have to suffer any more of PJ's use of the Tolkien name on his moronic action-adventures for retarded 12-year-olds.

You haven't heard about Farmer Giles of Ham? Jackson thinks he may be able to winnow it down to a mere two three-hour installments. But it will be a near thing, what with Tolkien's notes for a projected sequel and some creative extrapolations involving romance and vampires and spunky warrior-maidens and spunky warden-maiden vampire romance.

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by IxnaY AintsaY

You haven't heard about Farmer Giles of Ham? Jackson thinks he may be able to winnow it down to a mere two three-hour installments. But it will be a near thing, what with Tolkien's notes for a projected sequel and some creative extrapolations involving romance and vampires and spunky warrior-maidens and spunky warden-maiden vampire romance.

You better prepare yourself for a trilogy of 3 hour Silmarillion movies, which somehow heavily involve Gandalf!

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

You better prepare yourself for a trilogy of 3 hour Silmarillion movies, which somehow heavily involve Gandalf!

Thank goodness Christopher Tolkien is still alive.

[Galadriel55]

Not to mention Leaf: By Niggle - it does hint at the end that there are more adventures ahead that concern the characters present in this tale. Who cares if their fate isn't supposed to be known? Who cares that its precision isn't relevant to the story, and the whole thing morphs into a different story altogether? There's an opening for an endless sequel. You'll get at least several seasons of a TV show from that one. Heck, maybe one day, when the movie industry finally runs out of ideas and can't milk the story anymore, it will turn into a prequel for The Hobbit!

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Not to mention Leaf: By Niggle - it does hint at the end that there are more adventures ahead that concern the characters present in this tale. Who cares if their fate isn't supposed to be known? Who cares that its precision isn't relevant to the story, and the whole thing morphs into a different story altogether? There's an opening for an endless sequel. You'll get at least several seasons of a TV show from that one. Heck, maybe one day, when the movie industry finally runs out of ideas and can't milk the story anymore, it will turn into a prequel for The Hobbit!

I'm still waiting for the 50 episode animated version of Farmer Giles of Ham, soon to be airing on Nickelodeon, directed by our hobbit PJ.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Thank goodness Christopher Tolkien is still alive.

May he be granted a Numenorean span.... just turned ninety though but I hope going strong.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

May he be granted a Numenorean span.... just turned ninety though but I hope going strong.

I hope so too.

I hope also that Christopher's successors don't just see dollar signs (or pound signs as the case may be) when matters come into their charge.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I'm looking forward to it with great joy and excitement-- because it will be the LAST, and we will no longer have to suffer any more of PJ's use of the Tolkien name on his moronic action-adventures for retarded 12-year-olds.

Also, when it's all said and done, I'm fairly confident anyone can read The Hobbit in less time than it would take to get through PJ's slop-fest.

[Nerwen]

Well, there's another review on TORN which goes into a bit more detail. The film sounds... interesting...

Dain’s arrival is impressive but is a little trumped by the awkward realization that Billy Connolly has been entirely replaced by a CGI character.

There is the business of giant worms, akin to those from Dune, that tunnel out massive pathways for the orcs to sneak towards Dale

Legolas grabs onto the foot of a bat and fetches a ride up the mountain, in a sequence that seems straight out of King Kong

[Beorn] arrives atop one of the eagles Radagast rides in on.

Thranduil plays the role of Nick Fury and instructs Legolas to track down a young ranger in the north, known as “Strider.”

Hoax or not? Discuss.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hoax or not? Discuss.

I would like to think the movies were a hoax; unfortunately, I am more and more inclined to believe someone actually spent time to subvert the original plot. No, really!

In other ToRN news, a thread was locked because a poster made this observation:

Here's to Peter Jackson...
The only man in the universe that could make true Tolkien fans hate Legolas.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hoax or not? Discuss.

Supposedly at least one of the people who's revealed these items from the film is "legit." I'll wait and see, however. Even lurking on TORN is frustrating at the moment. The self-appointed opinion police who can't abide the slightest hint of not towing the party line about lavishing undying praise upon the films are out in force. The spoilers seem to have spooked a lot of people who might otherwise have been giving it the benefit of the doubt.

EDIT: That being said, a lot of the complaints seem very petty too. I'd prefer more "it's not true to its own themes/the book's themes/ etc" and less "Nooo Beorn isn't in it enough," which isn't exactly the most compelling reason for questioning the film in my opinion.

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Supposedly at least one of the people who's revealed these items from the film is "legit." I'll wait and see, however. Even lurking on TORN is frustrating at the moment. The self-appointed opinion police who can't abide the slightest hint of not towing the party line about lavishing undying praise upon the films are out in force. The spoilers seem to have spooked a lot of people who might otherwise have been giving it the benefit of the doubt.

EDIT: That being said, a lot of the complaints seem very petty too. I'd prefer more "it's not true to its own themes/the book's themes/ etc" and less "Nooo Beorn isn't in it enough," which isn't exactly the most compelling reason for questioning the film in my opinion.

I know some people who criticised the 2nd movie because 'it wasn't humorous enough'.
While the Hobbit was a humorous tale at points, it's not a comedy. Also, PJ screwed up, and the humor is not how it was in the book, bringing me back to the original statement that the movies aren't true to The Hobbit's themes.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

I know some people who criticised the 2nd movie because 'it wasn't humorous enough'.

Now that's an interesting opinion. Personally I think the tone is simply inconsistent, that it fluctuates wildly from farcical humour to extreme seriousness. It's one of the reasons that I actually think they needed someone with a British comedy background involved in the scripts to capture the whimsical tone. I know Professor Tolkien himself came to disapprove of that tone but I still enjoy it because I think the narrative rather suits the conversational or story-teller style.

I think over the past year or so I've become a little less bothered by these things. I still don't like or approve of them, but I feel as if I can be somewhat more dispassionate about them.

What tends to frustrate me is this: every popular film or TV show or what have you has a 'big forum.' For 'Tolkien,' particularly the films, it's TORN. Other things have their own 'big forum.' And on these places there are people who can't take criticism of whatever it is, and make that very clear: critics are often "whingers" or "whiners" who can't do it themselves and therefore should be ignored. And because these people are notionally, in their very negative way, 'likers,' which is usually the gist of the 'big forum' in general, they tend to get away with it. If however someone makes a similarly truculent claim about the 'likers' (calling them "sycophants" or "fanboys," perhaps) it's considered very taboo. This isn't something I've done, if you're worried, but I've noticed the double standard. It's completely off-putting to observe an unquestioned vocal element which is silently condoned by the authority because their opinions roughly align, which nonetheless utterly stifles certain lines of discourse. I've been guilty of making unhelpful generalisations in the past, which I try these days to avoid, but I'd like to think that at least if I take issue with the film I don't feel the need to slander the people who like it, certainly not on a forum where it's supposed to be part of a conversation.

Maybe at the end of the day that's my biggest problem with these films - the certain group of "defensives" who take it all too personally, and in doing so, in a way, make it personal.

[Morthoron]

I was having an amusing battle on this thread (starting at post# 38):

http://newboards.theonering.net/foru...;so=ASC;mh=25;

Obviously, I am completely wrong in thinking that The Hobbit would have done just fine without the insertion of a female character, Tauriel.

And equally as obvious, an admin thinks I am being insulting. Amazing I've lasted on that forum since 2008 without banishment. Kudos to the moderators of the Barrow Downs for being...ummm...not immoderate.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hoax or not? Discuss.

We should start a betting pool on how many of the spoilers are real.

I'm all in on they are.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

This isn't something I've done

This is something I have done, which is why I'm banned from TORN.

What's especially Kafka-esque is that site's byline "made by and for fans of JRR Tolkien." Um, no. "By and for fans of Peter Jackson"* is the truth of it. Actual Tolkien fans need not apply.

------------------


*And, according to some people who would be in a position to know, considerable guidance and financing from WETA/Wingnut and Warner Brothers.

[Mithalwen]

ToRN always gives me the impression that PJ has the sort of personality cult that Kim Jong-un can only fantasize about and that dissenters will be disappeared..... I have posted there once or twice but under a different identity....